if you want, you could append "Scholarships will be considered for those in need."

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Aira Loren Burkhart airaloren@gmail.comwrote:

I know this will sound funny, but maybe this course should cost more?

(I'm just brainstorming, so you might disagree)

There is definitely a psychology to pricing and making the course free/very cheap might be making it seem like it's not an important class or like the content is low quality or something.

Maybe the course should be advertised as costing $100 or another high number *more similar to classes people pay to take*, like dancing, or music, or art classes? Charging a lot might make it seem exclusive and legitimize the course content.

I think people pay more attention and have better attendance when they have already committed their money to something. They have to then "get their money's worth" by working hard and focusing. People sell out expensive rock concerts but you can't expect to "pack the park" for a free community concert. And that's because it's free, not because the content is different.

Is this making sense to anyone else?

"You get what you pay for" and so far, no one is getting [from us] what they aren't paying for, right?

So, let's charge a lot for it and see if people would prefer to pay to play.

aira

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Chip Wamsley chip@wamsleycycles.comwrote:

...

---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:52:54 -0500

Frank et al,

I think the new business cards will be a help, 1) if bike board members hand them out to friends to direct them to the website to get the CCC class schedule--I'll be able to use lots at the shop 2) an 8 1/2 x 11 poster on heavier paper that could be put up at the bike shops, rec center, coop, moose, black bear, laundromats, around campus etc. . . to briefly describe course and drive people to the class--the same poster in slide form on the city TV channel should also work well.

Chip

...

Education Committee members,

The Mar - Sep 2010 courses are scheduled at

http://bikemorgantown.com/calendar.php . Recommendations for getting people to attend?

...

Ads in the Dominion Post and Daily Athenaeum might make sense although

I'd say last year, the ad in the paper actually brought less than 4 participants.

...

Other ideas?

Frank

I agree with Aira and Chip. The question is, how much should we charge to get the most people to take the course? If we're going to change the price, we must change it ASAP since we already have pricing info on the course calendar.

Here's how I arrived at the current $45 price. Three years ago, before I started teaching Traffic Skills 101, I did a very cursory search of the web for other cities' pricing. I found prices at 3 cities. Prices ranged from $30 to $90. $90 was in CA. $30 was in NC. So, I set a strawman price of $60. Then, on rides with MonBikeClub cyclists, I asked 6 riders separately what they thought of the $60 price. A couple said it was too high but $30-35 seemed reasonable. I set the price at $45.

I think it would be an excellent idea for someone to do more research on prevailing pricing.

Just FYI, if we teach 4 participants/class with 2 instructors getting paid $25/hr, we'd have to charge $163/participant to break even (includes text books and other necessary expenses). If we had 8 participants, we would break even at $89/participant. So, Ryan, don't get your hopes up for a pay raise. (Remember, the grant absorbs losses.)

So, what should we charge?

Frank

On Feb 8, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Ryan Post wrote:

Ya, I’m fine with that, then you can pay the instructors more!

That principle was actually talked about during the LCI class, put a value on something and people want it more. However, I’d still argue that it doesn’t matter if they don’t know about the course. So problem is still getting word out. I wonder if businesses are willing to incorporate it into their bonus programs? I know my old company required everyone to take some extra classes to get bonuses.

On Feb 8, 2011, at 5:40 PM, Chip Wamsley wrote:

...

---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Aira Loren Burkhart airaloren@gmail.com Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:35:32 -0500

I agree with Aira, putting a value on the course is important and if people pay, they will show up. I think we are already requiring folks to pay first, and then complete the course to get money back--correct? Chip

From: Aira Loren Burkhart [mailto:airaloren@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:36 PM To: chip@wamsleycycles.com Cc: Jim Rye; Gunnar Shogren; Marilyn Newcome; Ryan Post; Elizabeth Shogren; Hugh.Kierig@mail.wvu.edu; chip wamsley; Don Spencer; Paul Becker; Frank Gmeindl; Bicycle Board Subject: Re: Course participation

I know this will sound funny, but maybe this course should cost more?

(I'm just brainstorming, so you might disagree)

There is definitely a psychology to pricing and making the course free/very cheap might be making it seem like it's not an important class or like the content is low quality or something.

Maybe the course should be advertised as costing $100 or another high number more similar to classes people pay to take, like dancing, or music, or art classes? Charging a lot might make it seem exclusive and legitimize the course content.

I think people pay more attention and have better attendance when they have already committed their money to something. They have to then "get their money's worth" by working hard and focusing. People sell out expensive rock concerts but you can't expect to "pack the park" for a free community concert. And that's because it's free, not because the content is different.

Is this making sense to anyone else?

"You get what you pay for" and so far, no one is getting [from us] what they aren't paying for, right?

So, let's charge a lot for it and see if people would prefer to pay to play.

aira

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Chip Wamsley chip@wamsleycycles.com wrote: ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:52:54 -0500

Frank et al,

I think the new business cards will be a help, 1) if bike board members hand them out to friends to direct them to the website to get the CCC class schedule--I'll be able to use lots at the shop 2) an 8 1/2 x 11 poster on heavier paper that could be put up at the bike shops, rec center, coop, moose, black bear, laundromats, around campus etc. . . to briefly describe course and drive people to the class--the same poster in slide form on the city TV channel should also work well.

Chip

...

Education Committee members,

The Mar - Sep 2010 courses are scheduled at http://bikemorgantown.com/calendar.php . Recommendations for getting people to attend?

Ads in the Dominion Post and Daily Athenaeum might make sense although I'd say last year, the ad in the paper actually brought less than 4 participants.

Other ideas?

Frank

one more note, Andrew Walker thinks we should, per his text message, "Go more viral, grassroots."

If anyone has thoughts on what that might mean, apart from* or in additional to* papering the town in hip illustrated posters, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

aira

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Aira Loren Burkhart airaloren@gmail.comwrote:

My friend Sommer (a designer in Dallas) thinks that if we initially charge, we can also then have coupons or vouchers. "Buy a bike, get free lessons, a $100 value!" Might help sell some bicycles too!

$45 is okay, but [confession] John and I paid $190* a person* for a weekend of all day ski lessons a fee weeks ago. "For $190 a person, it better be good!" was what I said.... and it was!

I think most people care more about saving time than saving money. The ski class advertised "Improve your skiing by 3-5 years in a weekend." *Now, that's value!* The CCC course offers the same kind of knowledge, eliminating years of trial and error. So, we should pitch it more from that angle.

"save 3-5 years" justifies a substantial price, doesn't it?

there were 15-20 people in the ski class and every one said they'd persuade friends to take it in the future. the price definitely didn't hurt enrollment.

aira

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:

...

I agree with Aira and Chip. The question is, how much should we charge to get the most people to take the course? If we're going to change the price, we must change it ASAP since we already have pricing info on the course calendar.

Here's how I arrived at the current $45 price. Three years ago, before I started teaching Traffic Skills 101, I did a very cursory search of the web for other cities' pricing. I found prices at 3 cities. Prices ranged from $30 to $90. $90 was in CA. $30 was in NC. So, I set a strawman price of $60. Then, on rides with MonBikeClub cyclists, I asked 6 riders separately what they thought of the $60 price. A couple said it was too high but $30-35 seemed reasonable. I set the price at $45.

I think it would be an excellent idea for someone to do more research on prevailing pricing.

Just FYI, if we teach 4 participants/class with 2 instructors getting paid $25/hr, we'd have to charge $163/participant to break even (includes text books and other necessary expenses). If we had 8 participants, we would break even at $89/participant. So, Ryan, don't get your hopes up for a pay raise. (Remember, the grant absorbs losses.)

So, what should we charge?

Frank

On Feb 8, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Ryan Post wrote:

Ya, I’m fine with that, then you can pay the instructors more!

That principle was actually talked about during the LCI class, put a value on something and people want it more. However, I’d still argue that it doesn’t matter if they don’t know about the course. So problem is still getting word out. I wonder if businesses are willing to incorporate it into their bonus programs? I know my old company required everyone to take some extra classes to get bonuses.

On Feb 8, 2011, at 5:40 PM, Chip Wamsley wrote:

---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Aira Loren Burkhart airaloren@gmail.com Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:35:32 -0500

I agree with Aira, putting a value on the course is important and if people pay, they will show up. I think we are already requiring folks to pay first, and then complete the course to get money back--correct? Chip

*From:* Aira Loren Burkhart [mailto:airaloren@gmail.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:36 PM *To:* chip@wamsleycycles.com *Cc:* Jim Rye; Gunnar Shogren; Marilyn Newcome; Ryan Post; Elizabeth Shogren; Hugh.Kierig@mail.wvu.edu; chip wamsley; Don Spencer; Paul Becker; Frank Gmeindl; Bicycle Board *Subject:* Re: Course participation

I know this will sound funny, but maybe this course should cost more?

(I'm just brainstorming, so you might disagree)

There is definitely a psychology to pricing and making the course free/very cheap might be making it seem like it's not an important class or like the content is low quality or something.

Maybe the course should be advertised as costing $100 or another high number *more similar to classes people pay to take*, like dancing, or music, or art classes? Charging a lot might make it seem exclusive and legitimize the course content.

I think people pay more attention and have better attendance when they have already committed their money to something. They have to then "get their money's worth" by working hard and focusing. People sell out expensive rock concerts but you can't expect to "pack the park" for a free community concert. And that's because it's free, not because the content is different.

Is this making sense to anyone else?

"You get what you pay for" and so far, no one is getting [from us] what they aren't paying for, right?

So, let's charge a lot for it and see if people would prefer to pay to play.

aira On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Chip Wamsley chip@wamsleycycles.com wrote: ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:52:54 -0500

Frank et al,

I think the new business cards will be a help, 1) if bike board members hand them out to friends to direct them to the website to get the CCC class schedule--I'll be able to use lots at the shop 2) an 8 1/2 x 11 poster on heavier paper that could be put up at the bike shops, rec center, coop, moose, black bear, laundromats, around campus etc. . . to briefly describe course and drive people to the class--the same poster in slide form on the city TV channel should also work well.

Chip

...

Education Committee members,

The Mar - Sep 2010 courses are scheduled at

http://bikemorgantown.com/calendar.php . Recommendations for getting people to attend?

...

Ads in the Dominion Post and Daily Athenaeum might make sense although

I'd say last year, the ad in the paper actually brought less than 4 participants.

...

Other ideas?

Frank

Well, who do we want to attend the class, or who do we think might possibly be persuaded to bicycle who isn't already?

that's the heart of the marketing problem.

*who's our target?* students? (what kind?) people who live within 2 miles of school or work? the eldery? the unhealthy who want to be healthy? triathletes? runners? people with bike racks on their cars? flyers on any and all bicycles seem parked around town?

if we could decide who we wanted to attend the class (cyclists or noncyclists), we could figure out how to reach them.

aira

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:

That's easy for him to "say". The issue is what is there about the course that would want to make people tell other people about it?

Frank

On Feb 9, 2011, at 2:13 PM, Aira Loren Burkhart wrote:

one more note, Andrew Walker thinks we should, per his text message, "Go more viral, grassroots."

If anyone has thoughts on what that might mean, apart from* or in additional to* papering the town in hip illustrated posters, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

aira

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Aira Loren Burkhart airaloren@gmail.comwrote:

...

My friend Sommer (a designer in Dallas) thinks that if we initially charge, we can also then have coupons or vouchers. "Buy a bike, get free lessons, a $100 value!" Might help sell some bicycles too!

$45 is okay, but [confession] John and I paid $190* a person* for a weekend of all day ski lessons a fee weeks ago. "For $190 a person, it better be good!" was what I said.... and it was!

I think most people care more about saving time than saving money. The ski class advertised "Improve your skiing by 3-5 years in a weekend." *Now, that's value!* The CCC course offers the same kind of knowledge, eliminating years of trial and error. So, we should pitch it more from that angle.

"save 3-5 years" justifies a substantial price, doesn't it?

there were 15-20 people in the ski class and every one said they'd persuade friends to take it in the future. the price definitely didn't hurt enrollment.

aira

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:

...

I agree with Aira and Chip. The question is, how much should we charge to get the most people to take the course? If we're going to change the price, we must change it ASAP since we already have pricing info on the course calendar.

Here's how I arrived at the current $45 price. Three years ago, before I started teaching Traffic Skills 101, I did a very cursory search of the web for other cities' pricing. I found prices at 3 cities. Prices ranged from $30 to $90. $90 was in CA. $30 was in NC. So, I set a strawman price of $60. Then, on rides with MonBikeClub cyclists, I asked 6 riders separately what they thought of the $60 price. A couple said it was too high but $30-35 seemed reasonable. I set the price at $45.

I think it would be an excellent idea for someone to do more research on prevailing pricing.

Just FYI, if we teach 4 participants/class with 2 instructors getting paid $25/hr, we'd have to charge $163/participant to break even (includes text books and other necessary expenses). If we had 8 participants, we would break even at $89/participant. So, Ryan, don't get your hopes up for a pay raise. (Remember, the grant absorbs losses.)

So, what should we charge?

Frank

On Feb 8, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Ryan Post wrote:

Ya, I’m fine with that, then you can pay the instructors more!

That principle was actually talked about during the LCI class, put a value on something and people want it more. However, I’d still argue that it doesn’t matter if they don’t know about the course. So problem is still getting word out. I wonder if businesses are willing to incorporate it into their bonus programs? I know my old company required everyone to take some extra classes to get bonuses.

On Feb 8, 2011, at 5:40 PM, Chip Wamsley wrote:

---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Aira Loren Burkhart airaloren@gmail.com Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:35:32 -0500

I agree with Aira, putting a value on the course is important and if people pay, they will show up. I think we are already requiring folks to pay first, and then complete the course to get money back--correct? Chip

*From:* Aira Loren Burkhart [mailto:airaloren@gmail.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:36 PM *To:* chip@wamsleycycles.com *Cc:* Jim Rye; Gunnar Shogren; Marilyn Newcome; Ryan Post; Elizabeth Shogren; Hugh.Kierig@mail.wvu.edu; chip wamsley; Don Spencer; Paul Becker; Frank Gmeindl; Bicycle Board *Subject:* Re: Course participation

I know this will sound funny, but maybe this course should cost more?

(I'm just brainstorming, so you might disagree)

There is definitely a psychology to pricing and making the course free/very cheap might be making it seem like it's not an important class or like the content is low quality or something.

Maybe the course should be advertised as costing $100 or another high number *more similar to classes people pay to take*, like dancing, or music, or art classes? Charging a lot might make it seem exclusive and legitimize the course content.

I think people pay more attention and have better attendance when they have already committed their money to something. They have to then "get their money's worth" by working hard and focusing. People sell out expensive rock concerts but you can't expect to "pack the park" for a free community concert. And that's because it's free, not because the content is different.

Is this making sense to anyone else?

"You get what you pay for" and so far, no one is getting [from us] what they aren't paying for, right?

So, let's charge a lot for it and see if people would prefer to pay to play.

aira On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Chip Wamsley chip@wamsleycycles.com wrote: ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:52:54 -0500

Frank et al,

I think the new business cards will be a help, 1) if bike board members hand them out to friends to direct them to the website to get the CCC class schedule--I'll be able to use lots at the shop 2) an 8 1/2 x 11 poster on heavier paper that could be put up at the bike shops, rec center, coop, moose, black bear, laundromats, around campus etc. . . to briefly describe course and drive people to the class--the same poster in slide form on the city TV channel should also work well.

Chip

...

Education Committee members,

The Mar - Sep 2010 courses are scheduled at

http://bikemorgantown.com/calendar.php . Recommendations for getting people to attend?

...

Ads in the Dominion Post and Daily Athenaeum might make sense although

I'd say last year, the ad in the paper actually brought less than 4 participants.

...

Other ideas?

Frank

---

Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard

Fact is- How many of those folks from the Mon Bike Club ride that said 60$ was too much came for a class? Skiing is (I would say) a *completely* different demographic compared to the "learn to bike properly" crowd. Might not be different from say "learn how to train for your first century" or "get fit for your first Tri" crowd or something like that, but I just don't think it's viewed as the same from the "people". Sure we all know that it's really important and really helpful, but unless we get that word across to folks, it just doesn't appear to be. How many of this list *have* taken the course? 100%? And why not? Too much $$, not enough worth, too much time, you already know it all? Well maybe that's the same for the population too.

Wish I had answers. I think 60$ is max for around here, but there *has* to be a real perceived value. We gotta work on that.

My .02$

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:

On Feb 9, 2011, at 2:25 PM, Aira Loren Burkhart wrote:

Well, who do we want to attend the class, or who do we think might possibly be persuaded to bicycle who isn't already?

Good question.  My first response is:  everybody.  If I had to segment and prioritize, my first rough target would be those that would make the biggest switch to riding their bikes from driving their cars.  Now, who would they be?  I'll just throw out a couple of guesses: people who:

• have experienced the joy and freedom of cycling but find some impediments

to riding now

• can tolerate getting somewhere a few minutes later than driving or being

driven

• are in fair or better physical condition
• want to drive their cars less

that's the heart of the marketing problem.

who's our target? students? (what kind?) people who live within 2 miles of school or work? the eldery? the unhealthy who want to be healthy? triathletes? runners? people with bike racks on their cars? flyers on any and all bicycles seem parked around town?

if we could decide who we wanted to attend the class (cyclists or noncyclists), we could figure out how to reach them.

aira

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:

...

That's easy for him to "say".  The issue is what is there about the course that would want to make people tell other people about it? Frank On Feb 9, 2011, at 2:13 PM, Aira Loren Burkhart wrote:

one more note, Andrew Walker thinks we should, per his text message, "Go more viral, grassroots."

If anyone has thoughts on what that might mean, apart from or in additional to papering the town in hip illustrated posters, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

aira

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Aira Loren Burkhart airaloren@gmail.com wrote:

...

My friend Sommer (a designer in Dallas) thinks that if we initially charge, we can also then have coupons or vouchers. "Buy a bike, get free lessons, a $100 value!" Might help sell some bicycles too!

$45 is okay, but [confession] John and I paid $190 a person for a weekend of all day ski lessons a fee weeks ago. "For $190 a person, it better be good!" was what I said.... and it was!

I think most people care more about saving time than saving money. The ski class advertised "Improve your skiing by 3-5 years in a weekend." Now, that's value! The CCC course offers the same kind of knowledge, eliminating years of trial and error. So, we should pitch it more from that angle.

"save 3-5 years" justifies a substantial price, doesn't it?

there were 15-20 people in the ski class and every one said they'd persuade friends to take it in the future. the price definitely didn't hurt enrollment.

aira

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:

...

I agree with Aira and Chip.  The question is, how much should we charge to get the most people to take the course?  If we're going to change the price, we must change it ASAP since we already have pricing info on the course calendar.

Here's how I arrived at the current $45 price.  Three years ago, before I started teaching Traffic Skills 101, I did a very cursory search of the web for other cities' pricing.  I found prices at 3 cities.  Prices ranged from $30 to $90.  $90 was in CA.  $30 was in NC.  So, I set a strawman price of $60.  Then, on rides with MonBikeClub cyclists, I asked 6 riders separately what they thought of the $60 price.  A couple said it was too high but $30-35 seemed reasonable.  I set the price at $45. I think it would be an excellent idea for someone to do more research on prevailing pricing. Just FYI, if we teach 4 participants/class with 2 instructors getting paid $25/hr, we'd have to charge $163/participant to break even (includes text books and other necessary expenses).  If we had 8 participants, we would break even at $89/participant.  So, Ryan, don't get your hopes up for a pay raise.  (Remember, the grant absorbs losses.) So, what should we charge? Frank

On Feb 8, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Ryan Post wrote:

Ya, I’m fine with that, then you can pay the instructors more!

That principle was actually talked about during the LCI class, put a value on something and people want it more.  However, I’d still argue that it doesn’t matter if they don’t know about the course. So problem is still getting word out.  I wonder if businesses are willing to incorporate it into their bonus programs?  I know my old company required everyone to take some extra classes to get bonuses.

On Feb 8, 2011, at 5:40 PM, Chip Wamsley wrote:

---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Aira Loren Burkhart airaloren@gmail.com Date:  Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:35:32 -0500

I agree with Aira, putting a value on the course is important and if people pay, they will show up.  I think we are already requiring folks to pay first, and then complete the course to get money back--correct? Chip

From: Aira Loren Burkhart [mailto:airaloren@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:36 PM To: chip@wamsleycycles.com Cc: Jim Rye; Gunnar Shogren; Marilyn Newcome; Ryan Post; Elizabeth Shogren; Hugh.Kierig@mail.wvu.edu; chip wamsley; Don Spencer; Paul Becker; Frank Gmeindl; Bicycle Board Subject: Re: Course participation

I know this will sound funny, but maybe this course should cost more?

(I'm just brainstorming, so you might disagree)

There is definitely a psychology to pricing and making the course free/very cheap might be making it seem like it's not an important class or like the content is low quality or something.

Maybe the course should be advertised as costing $100 or another high number more similar to classes people pay to take, like dancing, or music, or art classes? Charging a lot might make it seem exclusive and legitimize the course content.

I think people pay more attention and have better attendance when they have already committed their money to something. They have to then "get their money's worth" by working hard and focusing. People sell out expensive rock concerts but you can't expect to "pack the park" for a free community concert. And that's because it's free, not because the content is different.

Is this making sense to anyone else?

"You get what you pay for" and so far, no one is getting [from us] what they aren't paying for, right?

So, let's charge a lot for it and see if people would prefer to pay to play.

aira

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Chip Wamsley chip@wamsleycycles.com wrote: ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com Date:  Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:52:54 -0500

Frank et al,

I think the new business cards will be a help, 1) if bike board members hand them out to friends to direct them to the website to get the CCC class schedule--I'll be able to use lots at the shop 2) an 8 1/2 x 11 poster on heavier paper that could be put up at the bike shops, rec center, coop, moose, black bear, laundromats,  around campus etc. . . to briefly describe course and drive people to the class--the same poster in slide form on the city TV channel should also work well.

Chip

...

Education Committee members,

The Mar - Sep 2010 courses are scheduled at  http://bikemorgantown.com/calendar.php%C2%A0.  Recommendations for getting people to attend?

Ads in the Dominion Post and Daily Athenaeum might make sense although I'd say last year, the ad in the paper actually brought less than 4 participants.

Other ideas?

Frank

---

Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard

---

Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard

---

Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard

On Feb 9, 2011, at 3:20 PM, Aira Loren Burkhart wrote:

Did the MonBike Clubbers think $60 was too much because they think they don't need the class? How many of them came to the when it was almost/actually free? Was the low low price persuasive at all?

I don't remember who all I asked. I do know that of the 3 that said $60 was too much, 2 took it at $45 but 1 never took it.

As for my lack of attendance, there has been a disconnect between the value I put on the weekends versus the perceived value of the giving up one of those weekends to take the course. My thinking was "well, I'm getting to work and around town just fine and when things break, either john will fix it or the bike store guys or I'll read the manual....when it actually breaks, whenever that will be. So, I'll just keep scraping the paint off my house every night and weekend." I don't have boredom/down time, so the class needed to seem valuable enough to command priority among my many interests. Instead, it seemed like something that would "be there when I got around to it" which I never did.

So, can ya'll list the all the skills gained and we'll try to put a number to how many hours you'll save by taking the class?

After riding many more than 100,000 miles with fear of motor vehicles, the Traffic Skills 101 (then called Road I) eliminated my fear. The whole course did it but if I had to identify specific knowledge or skills they would be: 1. Understanding that visibility and predictability maximize my safety. 2. I have the same rights to the road as motorists and I have the same duties. 3. I am most visible and predictable when I drive my bicycle as a vehicle. 4. I get more respect and have fewer unpleasant encounters when I take the appropriate lateral position in the travel lane. 5. Many, many fine points such as the signal that my cadence and body position sends when I'm approaching an intersection, etc., etc.

I like the idea of the number of hours you'll save by taking the course. In his book, Effective Cycling, John Forester says (table 28.7, p. 271) that Effective Cycling training (which is 36 hours, not our 9 hour TS101 course), requires 1/4 year of training plus 800 miles of riding to gain the knowledge and skills that one would gain from self-teaching with 50,000 miles of riding over 10-20 years, or from reading books and riding 2,500 miles over 1 year. The complete Effective Cycling course includes everything in both TS101 and TS201 and then some. As I said above, I rode more than 100,000 miles over more than 50 years and read a lot of cycling magazines and books and didn't lose the fear until I took the weekend TS101 but I'm a slow learner and I wouldn't say that you'd save 50 years but I don't think saying 10 would be unreasonable.

aira

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Gunnar Shogren gshogren@gmail.com wrote: Fact is- How many of those folks from the Mon Bike Club ride that said 60$ was too much came for a class? Skiing is (I would say) a *completely* different demographic compared to the "learn to bike properly" crowd. Might not be different from say "learn how to train for your first century" or "get fit for your first Tri" crowd or something like that, but I just don't think it's viewed as the same from the "people". Sure we all know that it's really important and really helpful, but unless we get that word across to folks, it just doesn't appear to be. How many of this list *have* taken the course? 100%? And why not? Too much $$, not enough worth, too much time, you already know it all? Well maybe that's the same for the population too.

Wish I had answers. I think 60$ is max for around here, but there *has* to be a real perceived value. We gotta work on that.

My .02$

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:

...

On Feb 9, 2011, at 2:25 PM, Aira Loren Burkhart wrote:

Well, who do we want to attend the class, or who do we think might possibly be persuaded to bicycle who isn't already?

Good question. My first response is: everybody. If I had to segment and prioritize, my first rough target would be those that would make the biggest switch to riding their bikes from driving their cars. Now, who would they be? I'll just throw out a couple of guesses: people who:

• have experienced the joy and freedom of cycling but find some impediments

to riding now

• can tolerate getting somewhere a few minutes later than driving or being

driven

• are in fair or better physical condition
• want to drive their cars less

that's the heart of the marketing problem.

who's our target? students? (what kind?) people who live within 2 miles of school or work? the eldery? the unhealthy who want to be healthy? triathletes? runners? people with bike racks on their cars? flyers on any and all bicycles seem parked around town?

if we could decide who we wanted to attend the class (cyclists or noncyclists), we could figure out how to reach them.

aira

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:

...

That's easy for him to "say". The issue is what is there about the course that would want to make people tell other people about it? Frank On Feb 9, 2011, at 2:13 PM, Aira Loren Burkhart wrote:

one more note, Andrew Walker thinks we should, per his text message, "Go more viral, grassroots."

If anyone has thoughts on what that might mean, apart from or in additional to papering the town in hip illustrated posters, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

aira

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Aira Loren Burkhart airaloren@gmail.com wrote:

...

My friend Sommer (a designer in Dallas) thinks that if we initially charge, we can also then have coupons or vouchers. "Buy a bike, get free lessons, a $100 value!" Might help sell some bicycles too!

$45 is okay, but [confession] John and I paid $190 a person for a weekend of all day ski lessons a fee weeks ago. "For $190 a person, it better be good!" was what I said.... and it was!

I think most people care more about saving time than saving money. The ski class advertised "Improve your skiing by 3-5 years in a weekend." Now, that's value! The CCC course offers the same kind of knowledge, eliminating years of trial and error. So, we should pitch it more from that angle.

"save 3-5 years" justifies a substantial price, doesn't it?

there were 15-20 people in the ski class and every one said they'd persuade friends to take it in the future. the price definitely didn't hurt enrollment.

aira

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:

...

I agree with Aira and Chip. The question is, how much should we charge to get the most people to take the course? If we're going to change the price, we must change it ASAP since we already have pricing info on the course calendar.

Here's how I arrived at the current $45 price. Three years ago, before I started teaching Traffic Skills 101, I did a very cursory search of the web for other cities' pricing. I found prices at 3 cities. Prices ranged from $30 to $90. $90 was in CA. $30 was in NC. So, I set a strawman price of $60. Then, on rides with MonBikeClub cyclists, I asked 6 riders separately what they thought of the $60 price. A couple said it was too high but $30-35 seemed reasonable. I set the price at $45. I think it would be an excellent idea for someone to do more research on prevailing pricing. Just FYI, if we teach 4 participants/class with 2 instructors getting paid $25/hr, we'd have to charge $163/participant to break even (includes text books and other necessary expenses). If we had 8 participants, we would break even at $89/participant. So, Ryan, don't get your hopes up for a pay raise. (Remember, the grant absorbs losses.) So, what should we charge? Frank

On Feb 8, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Ryan Post wrote:

Ya, I’m fine with that, then you can pay the instructors more!

That principle was actually talked about during the LCI class, put a value on something and people want it more. However, I’d still argue that it doesn’t matter if they don’t know about the course. So problem is still getting word out. I wonder if businesses are willing to incorporate it into their bonus programs? I know my old company required everyone to take some extra classes to get bonuses.

On Feb 8, 2011, at 5:40 PM, Chip Wamsley wrote:

---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Aira Loren Burkhart airaloren@gmail.com Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:35:32 -0500

I agree with Aira, putting a value on the course is important and if people pay, they will show up. I think we are already requiring folks to pay first, and then complete the course to get money back--correct? Chip

From: Aira Loren Burkhart [mailto:airaloren@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:36 PM To: chip@wamsleycycles.com Cc: Jim Rye; Gunnar Shogren; Marilyn Newcome; Ryan Post; Elizabeth Shogren; Hugh.Kierig@mail.wvu.edu; chip wamsley; Don Spencer; Paul Becker; Frank Gmeindl; Bicycle Board Subject: Re: Course participation

I know this will sound funny, but maybe this course should cost more?

(I'm just brainstorming, so you might disagree)

There is definitely a psychology to pricing and making the course free/very cheap might be making it seem like it's not an important class or like the content is low quality or something.

Maybe the course should be advertised as costing $100 or another high number more similar to classes people pay to take, like dancing, or music, or art classes? Charging a lot might make it seem exclusive and legitimize the course content.

I think people pay more attention and have better attendance when they have already committed their money to something. They have to then "get their money's worth" by working hard and focusing. People sell out expensive rock concerts but you can't expect to "pack the park" for a free community concert. And that's because it's free, not because the content is different.

Is this making sense to anyone else?

"You get what you pay for" and so far, no one is getting [from us] what they aren't paying for, right?

So, let's charge a lot for it and see if people would prefer to pay to play.

aira

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Chip Wamsley chip@wamsleycycles.com wrote: ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:52:54 -0500

Frank et al,

I think the new business cards will be a help, 1) if bike board members hand them out to friends to direct them to the website to get the CCC class schedule--I'll be able to use lots at the shop 2) an 8 1/2 x 11 poster on heavier paper that could be put up at the bike shops, rec center, coop, moose, black bear, laundromats, around campus etc. . . to briefly describe course and drive people to the class--the same poster in slide form on the city TV channel should also work well.

Chip

...

Education Committee members,

The Mar - Sep 2010 courses are scheduled at http://bikemorgantown.com/calendar.php . Recommendations for getting people to attend?

Ads in the Dominion Post and Daily Athenaeum might make sense although I'd say last year, the ad in the paper actually brought less than 4 participants.

Other ideas?

Frank

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I say let's make another commercial! Tons of people saw our PSAs, while I am not so sure that many people actually read the newspaper that often (especially students and other active types).

I think Betsy is right about the commercial and people not reading the paper. Alice

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Gunnar Shogren gshogren@gmail.com wrote:

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 5:59 PM, Elizabeth Shogren elizabeth.schauer@gmail.com wrote:

...

I say let's make another commercial! Tons of people saw our PSAs, while I am not so sure that many people actually read the newspaper that often (especially students and other active types).

And the commercial that Betsy is talking about is one that promotes the CLASS and not just safe riding in general.

...

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Ya, we got Old, Young, Woman and Cantankerous. Frank and Gunnar can fight over which 2 persona they are.

I'm really liking the idea of getting word out to businesses. I'm thinking it'll be a better bang for the buck, and also is probably less time spent by BB members than working up a new commercial. As much as I'd love to be in a 4th cycling commercial!

I'm expecting that word of mouth will be the most powerful advertising once a bunch of people have taken it.

-----Original Message----- From: bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Shogren Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 8:15 PM To: Alice Vernon Cc: Jim Rye; chip wamsley; Elizabeth Shogren; Bicycle Board; Frank Gmeindl Subject: Re: [Bikeboard] Course participation

Thanks, Alice!

I am thinking the commercial could "introduce" our LCI instructors. Sometimes people are more apt to sign up for something if they can see that it is not taught by some scary hard-core freak. Establish a connection and all that...

On second thought, this idea could backfire. HAHA!! Just kidding!!!

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Alice Vernon vernon.mail@gmail.com wrote:

I think Betsy is right about the commercial and people not reading the paper.  Alice

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Gunnar Shogren gshogren@gmail.com wrote:

...

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 5:59 PM, Elizabeth Shogren elizabeth.schauer@gmail.com wrote:

...

I say let's make another commercial!  Tons of people saw our PSAs, while I am not so sure that many people actually read the newspaper that often (especially students and other active types).

And the commercial that Betsy is talking about is one that promotes the CLASS and not just safe riding in general.

...

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I have read through this whole thread, and while I observe some good thinking going on, there really isn't anything earth-shattering about the approaches being discussed. Targeting businesses has been discussed in the past, but what I mostly hear being suggested is that we change our jingle.

News alert. I don't think that we have failed in our marketing efforts at all. In fact, I think the results we are getting are typical for the particular media approaches we are employing.

In general, it is pretty common for media marketing to produce very small percentage returns. While it's a great approach for large companies who are targeting large populations, it is probably not in the BB's best interest. I am sure all of you receive spam mail, and I suspect that 100% of you absolutely hate it or completely ignore it, but alas, probably about 0.00001% of people who do receive it become repeat customers which makes it a very lucrative business for its proprietors. But ironically, it also means none of you probably become the customers. These stats tend to be true with many types of media marketing.

Lets do some numbers. Let's say we have a $70k budget and we spent about $25,000 last year, and Morgantown's MSA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) population is 118,506. Let's say 40 people took our course last year. That means, our costs were $625.00 per each individual, and our market penetration was 0.00034%. Note: I am guesstimating some of these numbers.

Just for demonstration, let's say that after everything is said and done, we are paying $525.00 in marketing costs for each person we are bringing into our program What's wrong with this picture? A lot.

Here is the solution I suggest. Let's employ a traditional sales approach. Initially, we will find people who are interested in marketing our program. This is the fun part because we wouldn't have to pay them $525 for each person they successfully get to enroll in our program, we could pay them $50 or $35 or maybe even $25 for their effort. I could see this approach being really successful at WVU. First we would ditch offering free courses to WVU students. If you were a WVU student and you could make $600 by convincing 12 of your friends to enroll and successfully complete the course, wouldn't that motivate you to market our program? Yes!

Now here's a creative approach building on Aira's concept of raising our price. Let's raise the price to $100, but lets give our marketers coupons with their sales ID written on it. If their friend brings the coupon when they enroll, they will receive a 60% discount or maybe even a 100% discount! Once they complete the course we will offer them a sales ID which they can use to invite all their friends and associates. But, because good marketers aren't necessarily people who have taken our course, we could open up the marketing program to anyone who is a good marketer, i.e., we would interview them first, and if approved, hire them as an independent contractor and provide them with instructions on how we want our program presented to the public.

I say, let's get a good paid sales force because that's how the Bicycle Boards Education's 7,000,000 pennies from its Grant will be most effectively utilized to successfully build a large program that will produce a nice population of enthusiastic bicyclists.

-Jonathan

Gunnar Shogren wrote:

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Ryan Post rpostwvu@gmail.com wrote:

...

Ya, we got Old, Young, Woman and Cantankerous. Frank and Gunnar can fight over which 2 persona they are.

I'm really liking the idea of getting word out to businesses. I'm thinking it'll be a better bang for the buck, and also is probably less time spent by BB members than working up a new commercial. As much as I'd love to be in a 4th cycling commercial!

I'm expecting that word of mouth will be the most powerful advertising once a bunch of people have taken it.

Oh, and how do we get to this "bunch of people"?

...

-----Original Message----- From: bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Shogren Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 8:15 PM To: Alice Vernon Cc: Jim Rye; chip wamsley; Elizabeth Shogren; Bicycle Board; Frank Gmeindl Subject: Re: [Bikeboard] Course participation

Thanks, Alice!

I am thinking the commercial could "introduce" our LCI instructors. Sometimes people are more apt to sign up for something if they can see that it is not taught by some scary hard-core freak. Establish a connection and all that...

On second thought, this idea could backfire. HAHA!! Just kidding!!!

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Alice Vernon vernon.mail@gmail.com wrote:

...

I think Betsy is right about the commercial and people not reading the paper. Alice

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Gunnar Shogren gshogren@gmail.com wrote:

...

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 5:59 PM, Elizabeth Shogren elizabeth.schauer@gmail.com wrote:

...

I say let's make another commercial! Tons of people saw our PSAs, while I am not so sure that many people actually read the newspaper that often (especially students and other active types).

And the commercial that Betsy is talking about is one that promotes the CLASS and not just safe riding in general.

...

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Agree that Jonathan's idea could be pretty cool.

Would this constitute the marketing exclusively, or would we still want to do the posters, new bike purchase voucher thing? How would we balance these?

aira

On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:

Jonathan,

Your suggestion is innovative, rational and practicable. Please see my questions and comments embedded below.

On Feb 10, 2011, at 4:54 AM, Jonathan Rosenbaum wrote:

I have read through this whole thread, and while I observe some good thinking going on, there really isn't anything earth-shattering about the approaches being discussed. Targeting businesses has been discussed in the past, but what I mostly hear being suggested is that we change our jingle.

News alert. I don't think that we have failed in our marketing efforts at all. In fact, I think the results we are getting are typical for the particular media approaches we are employing.

In general, it is pretty common for media marketing to produce very small percentage returns. While it's a great approach for large companies who are targeting large populations, it is probably not in the BB's best interest. I am sure all of you receive spam mail, and I suspect that 100% of you absolutely hate it or completely ignore it, but alas, probably about 0.00001% of people who do receive it become repeat customers which makes it a very lucrative business for its proprietors. But ironically, it also means none of you probably become the customers. These stats tend to be true with many types of media marketing.

Lets do some numbers. Let's say we have a $70k budget and we spent about $25,000 last year, and Morgantown's MSA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) population is 118,506. Let's say 40 people took our course last year. That means, our costs were $625.00 per each individual, and our market penetration was 0.00034%. Note: I am guesstimating some of these numbers.

Just for demonstration, let's say that after everything is said and done, we are paying $525.00 in marketing costs for each person we are bringing into our program What's wrong with this picture? A lot.

Here is the solution I suggest. Let's employ a traditional sales approach. Initially, we will find people who are interested in marketing our program.

What approach do you recommend to "find people who are interested in marketing our program" and who would implement your approach? From your writing below, it seems people that have completed TS101 or that have demonstrated that they know the material would qualify as marketers. I ask who would implement your approach because it won't happen unless somebody does it so the first job would seem to be to find somebody(s) that will take this on.

This is the fun part because we wouldn't have to pay them $525 for each person they successfully get to enroll in our program, we could pay them $50 or $35 or maybe even $25 for their effort. I could see this approach being really successful at WVU. First we would ditch offering free courses to WVU students. If you were a WVU student and you could make $600 by convincing 12 of your friends to enroll and successfully complete the course, wouldn't that motivate you to market our program? Yes!

Do you mean that the City would pay our "marketers" $25 for each person that they got to sign up for the course?

Now here's a creative approach building on Aira's concept of raising our price. Let's raise the price to $100, but lets give our marketers coupons with their sales ID written on it. If their friend brings the coupon when they enroll, they will receive a 60% discount or maybe even a 100% discount! Once they complete the course we will offer them a sales ID which they can use to invite all their friends and associates. But, because good marketers aren't necessarily people who have taken our course, we could open up the marketing program to anyone who is a good marketer, i.e., we would interview them first, and if approved, hire them as an independent contractor and provide them with instructions on how we want our program presented to the public.

Are you personally willing to manage this?

I say, let's get a good paid sales force because that's how the Bicycle Boards Education's 7,000,000 pennies from its Grant will be most effectively utilized to successfully build a large program that will produce a nice population of enthusiastic bicyclists.

-Jonathan

Gunnar Shogren wrote:

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Ryan Post rpostwvu@gmail.com rpostwvu@gmail.com wrote:

Ya, we got Old, Young, Woman and Cantankerous. Frank and Gunnar can fight over which 2 persona they are.

I'm really liking the idea of getting word out to businesses. I'm thinking it'll be a better bang for the buck, and also is probably less time spent by BB members than working up a new commercial. As much as I'd love to be in a 4th cycling commercial!

I'm expecting that word of mouth will be the most powerful advertising once a bunch of people have taken it.

Oh, and how do we get to this "bunch of people"?

-----Original Message----- From: bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Shogren Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 8:15 PM To: Alice Vernon Cc: Jim Rye; chip wamsley; Elizabeth Shogren; Bicycle Board; Frank Gmeindl Subject: Re: [Bikeboard] Course participation

Thanks, Alice!

I am thinking the commercial could "introduce" our LCI instructors. Sometimes people are more apt to sign up for something if they can see that it is not taught by some scary hard-core freak. Establish a connection and all that...

On second thought, this idea could backfire. HAHA!! Just kidding!!!

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Alice Vernon vernon.mail@gmail.com vernon.mail@gmail.com wrote:

I think Betsy is right about the commercial and people not reading the paper. Alice

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Gunnar Shogren gshogren@gmail.com gshogren@gmail.com wrote:

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 5:59 PM, Elizabeth Shogrenelizabeth.schauer@gmail.com elizabeth.schauer@gmail.com wrote:

I say let's make another commercial! Tons of people saw our PSAs, while I am not so sure that many people actually read the newspaper that often (especially students and other active types).

And the commercial that Betsy is talking about is one that promotes the CLASS and not just safe riding in general.

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On Feb 9, 2011, at 3:02 PM, Gunnar Shogren wrote:

Fact is- How many of those folks from the Mon Bike Club ride that said 60$ was too much came for a class?

The one who was most vehement against the $60 price never came. The two that said $30-35 would be better, took it at $45.

Skiing is (I would say) a *completely* different demographic compared to the "learn to bike properly" crowd. Might not be different from say "learn how to train for your first century" or "get fit for your first Tri" crowd or something like that, but I just don't think it's viewed as the same from the "people". Sure we all know that it's really important and really helpful, but unless we get that word across to folks, it just doesn't appear to be. How many of this list *have* taken the course? 100%?

19 members of bikeboard@cheat.org have taken the course, 11 or 37% have not.

And why not? Too much $$, not enough worth, too much time, you already know it all? Well maybe that's the same for the population too.

Wish I had answers. I think 60$ is max for around here, but there *has* to be a real perceived value. We gotta work on that.

My .02$

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:

...

On Feb 9, 2011, at 2:25 PM, Aira Loren Burkhart wrote:

Well, who do we want to attend the class, or who do we think might possibly be persuaded to bicycle who isn't already?

Good question. My first response is: everybody. If I had to segment and prioritize, my first rough target would be those that would make the biggest switch to riding their bikes from driving their cars. Now, who would they be? I'll just throw out a couple of guesses: people who:

• have experienced the joy and freedom of cycling but find some impediments

to riding now

• can tolerate getting somewhere a few minutes later than driving or being

driven

• are in fair or better physical condition
• want to drive their cars less

that's the heart of the marketing problem.

who's our target? students? (what kind?) people who live within 2 miles of school or work? the eldery? the unhealthy who want to be healthy? triathletes? runners? people with bike racks on their cars? flyers on any and all bicycles seem parked around town?

if we could decide who we wanted to attend the class (cyclists or noncyclists), we could figure out how to reach them.

aira

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:

...

That's easy for him to "say". The issue is what is there about the course that would want to make people tell other people about it? Frank On Feb 9, 2011, at 2:13 PM, Aira Loren Burkhart wrote:

one more note, Andrew Walker thinks we should, per his text message, "Go more viral, grassroots."

If anyone has thoughts on what that might mean, apart from or in additional to papering the town in hip illustrated posters, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

aira

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Aira Loren Burkhart airaloren@gmail.com wrote:

...

My friend Sommer (a designer in Dallas) thinks that if we initially charge, we can also then have coupons or vouchers. "Buy a bike, get free lessons, a $100 value!" Might help sell some bicycles too!

$45 is okay, but [confession] John and I paid $190 a person for a weekend of all day ski lessons a fee weeks ago. "For $190 a person, it better be good!" was what I said.... and it was!

I think most people care more about saving time than saving money. The ski class advertised "Improve your skiing by 3-5 years in a weekend." Now, that's value! The CCC course offers the same kind of knowledge, eliminating years of trial and error. So, we should pitch it more from that angle.

"save 3-5 years" justifies a substantial price, doesn't it?

there were 15-20 people in the ski class and every one said they'd persuade friends to take it in the future. the price definitely didn't hurt enrollment.

aira

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:

...

I agree with Aira and Chip. The question is, how much should we charge to get the most people to take the course? If we're going to change the price, we must change it ASAP since we already have pricing info on the course calendar.

Here's how I arrived at the current $45 price. Three years ago, before I started teaching Traffic Skills 101, I did a very cursory search of the web for other cities' pricing. I found prices at 3 cities. Prices ranged from $30 to $90. $90 was in CA. $30 was in NC. So, I set a strawman price of $60. Then, on rides with MonBikeClub cyclists, I asked 6 riders separately what they thought of the $60 price. A couple said it was too high but $30-35 seemed reasonable. I set the price at $45. I think it would be an excellent idea for someone to do more research on prevailing pricing. Just FYI, if we teach 4 participants/class with 2 instructors getting paid $25/hr, we'd have to charge $163/participant to break even (includes text books and other necessary expenses). If we had 8 participants, we would break even at $89/participant. So, Ryan, don't get your hopes up for a pay raise. (Remember, the grant absorbs losses.) So, what should we charge? Frank

On Feb 8, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Ryan Post wrote:

Ya, I’m fine with that, then you can pay the instructors more!

That principle was actually talked about during the LCI class, put a value on something and people want it more. However, I’d still argue that it doesn’t matter if they don’t know about the course. So problem is still getting word out. I wonder if businesses are willing to incorporate it into their bonus programs? I know my old company required everyone to take some extra classes to get bonuses.

On Feb 8, 2011, at 5:40 PM, Chip Wamsley wrote:

---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Aira Loren Burkhart airaloren@gmail.com Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:35:32 -0500

I agree with Aira, putting a value on the course is important and if people pay, they will show up. I think we are already requiring folks to pay first, and then complete the course to get money back--correct? Chip

From: Aira Loren Burkhart [mailto:airaloren@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:36 PM To: chip@wamsleycycles.com Cc: Jim Rye; Gunnar Shogren; Marilyn Newcome; Ryan Post; Elizabeth Shogren; Hugh.Kierig@mail.wvu.edu; chip wamsley; Don Spencer; Paul Becker; Frank Gmeindl; Bicycle Board Subject: Re: Course participation

I know this will sound funny, but maybe this course should cost more?

(I'm just brainstorming, so you might disagree)

There is definitely a psychology to pricing and making the course free/very cheap might be making it seem like it's not an important class or like the content is low quality or something.

Maybe the course should be advertised as costing $100 or another high number more similar to classes people pay to take, like dancing, or music, or art classes? Charging a lot might make it seem exclusive and legitimize the course content.

I think people pay more attention and have better attendance when they have already committed their money to something. They have to then "get their money's worth" by working hard and focusing. People sell out expensive rock concerts but you can't expect to "pack the park" for a free community concert. And that's because it's free, not because the content is different.

Is this making sense to anyone else?

"You get what you pay for" and so far, no one is getting [from us] what they aren't paying for, right?

So, let's charge a lot for it and see if people would prefer to pay to play.

aira

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Chip Wamsley chip@wamsleycycles.com wrote: ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:52:54 -0500

Frank et al,

I think the new business cards will be a help, 1) if bike board members hand them out to friends to direct them to the website to get the CCC class schedule--I'll be able to use lots at the shop 2) an 8 1/2 x 11 poster on heavier paper that could be put up at the bike shops, rec center, coop, moose, black bear, laundromats, around campus etc. . . to briefly describe course and drive people to the class--the same poster in slide form on the city TV channel should also work well.

Chip

...

Education Committee members,

The Mar - Sep 2010 courses are scheduled at http://bikemorgantown.com/calendar.php . Recommendations for getting people to attend?

Ads in the Dominion Post and Daily Athenaeum might make sense although I'd say last year, the ad in the paper actually brought less than 4 participants.

Other ideas?

Frank

---

Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard

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Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard

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Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard

I can make a poster if everyone tells me what it should say.

aira

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 6:37 AM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:

Chip,

Thanks for the prompt and constructive reply!

1. How many more business cards do you need? I'll bring them by.
2. The BikeMorgantown.com Courses page,

http://bikemorgantown.com/courses.php has all the info on the courses. What BB member(s) will make a poster? (I ask this question of all members, not just Chip.) I'm willing to get the poster produced and distributed but I have zero design talent/ability.)

Frank

On Feb 8, 2011, at 5:16 PM, Chip Wamsley wrote:

...

---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:52:54 -0500

Frank et al,

I think the new business cards will be a help, 1) if bike board members

hand them out to friends to direct them to the website to get the CCC class schedule--I'll be able to use lots at the shop 2) an 8 1/2 x 11 poster on heavier paper that could be put up at the bike shops, rec center, coop, moose, black bear, laundromats, around campus etc. . . to briefly describe course and drive people to the class--the same poster in slide form on the city TV channel should also work well.

...

Chip

...

Education Committee members,

The Mar - Sep 2010 courses are scheduled at

http://bikemorgantown.com/calendar.php . Recommendations for getting people to attend?

...

...

Ads in the Dominion Post and Daily Athenaeum might make sense although

I'd say last year, the ad in the paper actually brought less than 4 participants.

...

...

Other ideas?

Frank