Bicycle Board Members,
Tomorrow at 8 am, Christiaan, Bill Austin and I will meet with Kasey Russell at Waterfront Place to discuss her new organization, Connecting Communities. Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor. From the attached, " Connecting Communities will provide a unifying voice for citizens, elected officials, and policy leaders to address smart growth and a complete transportation system for our state."
What do you think?
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
It's a good strategy because of the rural nature of WV. Changing the wording from complete streets to complete transportation opens up the possibility to reach a wider audience. I have been convinced for months now that a coalition is a requirement if we want real change in state legislation and Kasey's action plan adds some additional measures.
-Jonathan
On 8/27/2012 1:04 PM, Frank Gmeindl wrote:
Bicycle Board Members,
Tomorrow at 8 am, Christiaan, Bill Austin and I will meet with Kasey Russell at Waterfront Place to discuss her new organization, Connecting Communities. Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor. From the attached, " Connecting Communities will provide a unifying voice for citizens, elected officials, and policy leaders to address smart growth and a complete transportation system for our state."
What do you think?
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 /Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles/
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@bikemorgantown.org http://wvcompletestreets.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Bicycle Board Members,
At last week's meeting with Kasey Russell, Bill Austin and Christiaan Abildso, Kasey asked me to think about a legislative agenda for Connecting Communities. (Recall that in her white paper, she gave two examples: 3 foot passing law and a self-imposed tax on biking community.)
Well, I've given it some thought and wrote the attached document. Please read it and tell me what you think. Feel free to mark it up using track changes and comments and return it to me. Also, check
In it, I am recommending 4 legislative changes: Repeal 17C-11-5 (a) which requires bicyclists to ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable. Or, if not repeal, add exceptions such as when preparing to make a left turn, to avoid hazards such as debris, glass, holes, dogs, etc. and when the road is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane. Repeal 17C-11-5 (c) which says, whenever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway. Amend 17C-7-3 which addresses overtaking and passing to require motorists to allow 4-feet when passing a bicyclist and to pass at a prudent reduced speed. Adopt the 2009 MUTCD.
As you know, I have always resisted messing with legislation because I think most people and perhaps especially legislators hate bicyclists so once they turn their attention on us, we can only but lose out; especially competent bicyclists that operate their bicycles as vehicles. All 50 states have a law that says every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle. Considering the level of bicycle friendliness that WV government has demonstrated, I wouldn't be surprised if WV were the first state to repeal that law or modify it so that we're not allowed on the roads anymore. Nevertheless, there seem to be more and more well-meaning people who are not competent bicyclists promoting new laws and changes to existing laws so I feel compelled to be proactive rather than reactive.
Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor and an experienced lobbyist. I think she's capable of getting something good done for WV bicyclists. She told me that she was 5 years old when she last rode a bike and she's afraid of bicycles. I'm sure she's getting legislation recommendations from all over the state. Since we're one of the few places in WV that has an organized body of bicycling experts, i.e. the BB, our recommendations might get attention.
If you're interested, http://bikemorgantown.com/bikelaw.php has links to relevant law.
I look forward to your responses.
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: August 27, 2012 1:04:53 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
Tomorrow at 8 am, Christiaan, Bill Austin and I will meet with Kasey Russell at Waterfront Place to discuss her new organization, Connecting Communities. Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor. From the attached, " Connecting Communities will provide a unifying voice for citizens, elected officials, and policy leaders to address smart growth and a complete transportation system for our state."
What do you think?
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
Hi All,
I like the changes you've proposed Frank. Only one potential addition from me, and I haven't had the chance yet to look into this:
Does WV or other states have laws pertaining to transportation that require them to consider feasibility/practicability of adding cycling infrastructure when road improvements/changes are made with state and federal monies?
To give an example, I'm thinking of something akin to the 'reasonable accommodation' requirement in the Americans with Disabilities Act.
Thanks,
Traci
Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net 9/4/2012 1:00 PM >>>
Bicycle Board Members,
At last week's meeting with Kasey Russell, Bill Austin and Christiaan Abildso, Kasey asked me to think about a legislative agenda for Connecting Communities. (Recall that in her white paper, she gave two examples: 3 foot passing law and a self-imposed tax on biking community.)
Well, I've given it some thought and wrote the attached document. Please read it and tell me what you think. Feel free to mark it up using track changes and comments and return it to me. Also, check
In it, I am recommending 4 legislative changes: Repeal 17C-11-5 (a) which requires bicyclists to ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable. Or, if not repeal, add exceptions such as when preparing to make a left turn, to avoid hazards such as debris, glass, holes, dogs, etc. and when the road is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane. Repeal 17C-11-5 (c) which says, whenever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway. Amend 17C-7-3 which addresses overtaking and passing to require motorists to allow 4-feet when passing a bicyclist and to pass at a prudent reduced speed. Adopt the 2009 MUTCD.
As you know, I have always resisted messing with legislation because I think most people and perhaps especially legislators hate bicyclists so once they turn their attention on us, we can only but lose out; especially competent bicyclists that operate their bicycles as vehicles. All 50 states have a law that says every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle. Considering the level of bicycle friendliness that WV government has demonstrated, I wouldn't be surprised if WV were the first state to repeal that law or modify it so that we're not allowed on the roads anymore. Nevertheless, there seem to be more and more well-meaning people who are not competent bicyclists promoting new laws and changes to existing laws so I feel compelled to be proactive rather than reactive.
Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor and an experienced lobbyist. I think she's capable of getting something good done for WV bicyclists. She told me that she was 5 years old when she last rode a bike and she's afraid of bicycles. I'm sure she's getting legislation recommendations from all over the state. Since we're one of the few places in WV that has an organized body of bicycling experts, i.e. the BB, our recommendations might get attention.
If you're interested, http://bikemorgantown.com/bikelaw.php has links to relevant law.
I look forward to your responses.
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
Traci,
I think the Complete Streets movement captures your intent. http://www.completestreets.org/
Complete Streets resolutions have been proposed in the WV legislature repeatedly over the past few years. See HB4074. http://www.legis.state.wv.us/Bill_Status/Bills_history.cfm?input=4074&ye...
Each has died but each year, they get more support. One advantage recently is that the AARP is getting strongly behind it.
The City of Morgantown and the Morgantown Monongalia MPO have adopted Complete Streets resolutions (see attached). The City and MPO have been lobbying the WVDOT and the legislature to adopt a Complete Streets resolution. WVDOT's position is that it's too expensive because they think they'll have to buy right-of-way and widen roads. They haven't figured out yet that the total life-cycle cost of bicycle transportation is less than motorized.
Frank
On Sep 4, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Traci Liebig wrote:
Hi All,
I like the changes you've proposed Frank. Only one potential addition from me, and I haven't had the chance yet to look into this:
Does WV or other states have laws pertaining to transportation that require them to consider feasibility/practicability of adding cycling infrastructure when road improvements/changes are made with state and federal monies?
To give an example, I'm thinking of something akin to the 'reasonable accommodation' requirement in the Americans with Disabilities Act.
Thanks,
Traci
Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net 9/4/2012 1:00 PM >>>
Bicycle Board Members,
At last week's meeting with Kasey Russell, Bill Austin and Christiaan Abildso, Kasey asked me to think about a legislative agenda for Connecting Communities. (Recall that in her white paper, she gave two examples: 3 foot passing law and a self-imposed tax on biking community.)
Well, I've given it some thought and wrote the attached document. Please read it and tell me what you think. Feel free to mark it up using track changes and comments and return it to me. Also, check
In it, I am recommending 4 legislative changes: Repeal 17C-11-5 (a) which requires bicyclists to ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable. Or, if not repeal, add exceptions such as when preparing to make a left turn, to avoid hazards such as debris, glass, holes, dogs, etc. and when the road is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane. Repeal 17C-11-5 (c) which says, whenever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway. Amend 17C-7-3 which addresses overtaking and passing to require motorists to allow 4-feet when passing a bicyclist and to pass at a prudent reduced speed. Adopt the 2009 MUTCD.
As you know, I have always resisted messing with legislation because I think most people and perhaps especially legislators hate bicyclists so once they turn their attention on us, we can only but lose out; especially competent bicyclists that operate their bicycles as vehicles. All 50 states have a law that says every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle. Considering the level of bicycle friendliness that WV government has demonstrated, I wouldn't be surprised if WV were the first state to repeal that law or modify it so that we're not allowed on the roads anymore. Nevertheless, there seem to be more and more well-meaning people who are not competent bicyclists promoting new laws and changes to existing laws so I feel compelled to be proactive rather than reactive.
Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor and an experienced lobbyist. I think she's capable of getting something good done for WV bicyclists. She told me that she was 5 years old when she last rode a bike and she's afraid of bicycles. I'm sure she's getting legislation recommendations from all over the state. Since we're one of the few places in WV that has an organized body of bicycling experts, i.e. the BB, our recommendations might get attention.
If you're interested, http://bikemorgantown.com/bikelaw.php has links to relevant law.
I look forward to your responses.
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
Bicycle Board Members,
Thanks to Chet and Traci for responding to my message below.
Nobody said anything about the proposal to add a 4-foot passing law and I've been giving it some more thought. The main reason I proposed a 4-foot law is that PA recently passed one and 4-feet seemed to be better than 3-feet which most states have. Then, I wondered if since most states have a 3-foot law and only PA has a 4-foot law, would the legislature reject the 4-foot law but maybe look more favorably on a 3-foot law. In my opinion, practically speaking, a fixed distance for passing doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't you want a vehicle that's traveling 65 mph faster than you to give you a little more space than a vehicle traveling 10 mph faster than you? So, instead or a 4-foot law, I would like to propose a law such as New Hampshire's that says, "... at least 3 feet when the vehicle is traveling at 30 miles per hour or less, with one additional foot of clearance required for every 10 miles per hour above 30 miles per hour".
What do you think?
Frank
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: September 4, 2012 1:00:49 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Fwd: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
At last week's meeting with Kasey Russell, Bill Austin and Christiaan Abildso, Kasey asked me to think about a legislative agenda for Connecting Communities. (Recall that in her white paper, she gave two examples: 3 foot passing law and a self-imposed tax on biking community.)
Well, I've given it some thought and wrote the attached document. Please read it and tell me what you think. Feel free to mark it up using track changes and comments and return it to me. Also, check
In it, I am recommending 4 legislative changes: Repeal 17C-11-5 (a) which requires bicyclists to ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable. Or, if not repeal, add exceptions such as when preparing to make a left turn, to avoid hazards such as debris, glass, holes, dogs, etc. and when the road is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane. Repeal 17C-11-5 (c) which says, whenever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway. Amend 17C-7-3 which addresses overtaking and passing to require motorists to allow 4-feet when passing a bicyclist and to pass at a prudent reduced speed. Adopt the 2009 MUTCD.
As you know, I have always resisted messing with legislation because I think most people and perhaps especially legislators hate bicyclists so once they turn their attention on us, we can only but lose out; especially competent bicyclists that operate their bicycles as vehicles. All 50 states have a law that says every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle. Considering the level of bicycle friendliness that WV government has demonstrated, I wouldn't be surprised if WV were the first state to repeal that law or modify it so that we're not allowed on the roads anymore. Nevertheless, there seem to be more and more well-meaning people who are not competent bicyclists promoting new laws and changes to existing laws so I feel compelled to be proactive rather than reactive.
Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor and an experienced lobbyist. I think she's capable of getting something good done for WV bicyclists. She told me that she was 5 years old when she last rode a bike and she's afraid of bicycles. I'm sure she's getting legislation recommendations from all over the state. Since we're one of the few places in WV that has an organized body of bicycling experts, i.e. the BB, our recommendations might get attention.
If you're interested, http://bikemorgantown.com/bikelaw.php has links to relevant law.
I look forward to your responses.
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: August 27, 2012 1:04:53 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
Tomorrow at 8 am, Christiaan, Bill Austin and I will meet with Kasey Russell at Waterfront Place to discuss her new organization, Connecting Communities. Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor. From the attached, " Connecting Communities will provide a unifying voice for citizens, elected officials, and policy leaders to address smart growth and a complete transportation system for our state."
What do you think?
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
It's a moot point. From what I've heard of PAs enforcent, it only happens when contact is made(0'). Problem being that police don't see things happen and there's no proof of 2'.
On Sep 9, 2012, at 10:29 PM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:
Bicycle Board Members,
Thanks to Chet and Traci for responding to my message below.
Nobody said anything about the proposal to add a 4-foot passing law and I've been giving it some more thought. The main reason I proposed a 4-foot law is that PA recently passed one and 4-feet seemed to be better than 3-feet which most states have. Then, I wondered if since most states have a 3-foot law and only PA has a 4-foot law, would the legislature reject the 4-foot law but maybe look more favorably on a 3-foot law. In my opinion, practically speaking, a fixed distance for passing doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't you want a vehicle that's traveling 65 mph faster than you to give you a little more space than a vehicle traveling 10 mph faster than you? So, instead or a 4-foot law, I would like to propose a law such as New Hampshire's that says, "... at least 3 feet when the vehicle is traveling at 30 miles per hour or less, with one additional foot of clearance required for every 10 miles per hour above 30 miles per hour".
What do you think?
Frank
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: September 4, 2012 1:00:49 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Fwd: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
At last week's meeting with Kasey Russell, Bill Austin and Christiaan Abildso, Kasey asked me to think about a legislative agenda for Connecting Communities. (Recall that in her white paper, she gave two examples: 3 foot passing law and a self-imposed tax on biking community.)
Well, I've given it some thought and wrote the attached document. Please read it and tell me what you think. Feel free to mark it up using track changes and comments and return it to me. Also, check
In it, I am recommending 4 legislative changes: Repeal 17C-11-5 (a) which requires bicyclists to ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable. Or, if not repeal, add exceptions such as when preparing to make a left turn, to avoid hazards such as debris, glass, holes, dogs, etc. and when the road is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane. Repeal 17C-11-5 (c) which says, whenever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway. Amend 17C-7-3 which addresses overtaking and passing to require motorists to allow 4-feet when passing a bicyclist and to pass at a prudent reduced speed. Adopt the 2009 MUTCD.
As you know, I have always resisted messing with legislation because I think most people and perhaps especially legislators hate bicyclists so once they turn their attention on us, we can only but lose out; especially competent bicyclists that operate their bicycles as vehicles. All 50 states have a law that says every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle. Considering the level of bicycle friendliness that WV government has demonstrated, I wouldn't be surprised if WV were the first state to repeal that law or modify it so that we're not allowed on the roads anymore. Nevertheless, there seem to be more and more well-meaning people who are not competent bicyclists promoting new laws and changes to existing laws so I feel compelled to be proactive rather than reactive.
Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor and an experienced lobbyist. I think she's capable of getting something good done for WV bicyclists. She told me that she was 5 years old when she last rode a bike and she's afraid of bicycles. I'm sure she's getting legislation recommendations from all over the state. Since we're one of the few places in WV that has an organized body of bicycling experts, i.e. the BB, our recommendations might get attention.
If you're interested, http://bikemorgantown.com/bikelaw.php has links to relevant law.
I look forward to your responses.
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
<CClegislationV05.docx>
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: August 27, 2012 1:04:53 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
Tomorrow at 8 am, Christiaan, Bill Austin and I will meet with Kasey Russell at Waterfront Place to discuss her new organization, Connecting Communities. Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor. From the attached, " Connecting Communities will provide a unifying voice for citizens, elected officials, and policy leaders to address smart growth and a complete transportation system for our state."
What do you think?
<Connecting Communities_internally (Autosaved).docx>
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com http://wvcompletestreets.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Frank,
If you think they would look more favorably on the 3-foot, then do you think it should just be kept specific? In other words, would the incremental language dissuade passage of the law?
Traci
Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com 9/9/2012 10:29 PM >>>
Bicycle Board Members,
Thanks to Chet and Traci for responding to my message below.
Nobody said anything about the proposal to add a 4-foot passing law and I've been giving it some more thought. The main reason I proposed a 4-foot law is that PA recently passed one and 4-feet seemed to be better than 3-feet which most states have. Then, I wondered if since most states have a 3-foot law and only PA has a 4-foot law, would the legislature reject the 4-foot law but maybe look more favorably on a 3-foot law. In my opinion, practically speaking, a fixed distance for passing doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't you want a vehicle that's traveling 65 mph faster than you to give you a little more space than a vehicle traveling 10 mph faster than you? So, instead or a 4-foot law, I would like to propose a law such as New Hampshire's that says, "... at least 3 feet when the vehicle is traveling at 30 miles per hour or less, with one additional foot of clearance required for every 10 miles per hour above 30 miles per hour".
What do you think?
Frank
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: September 4, 2012 1:00:49 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Fwd: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
At last week's meeting with Kasey Russell, Bill Austin and Christiaan Abildso, Kasey asked me to think about a legislative agenda for Connecting Communities. (Recall that in her white paper, she gave two examples: 3 foot passing law and a self-imposed tax on biking community.)
Well, I've given it some thought and wrote the attached document. Please read it and tell me what you think. Feel free to mark it up using track changes and comments and return it to me. Also, check
In it, I am recommending 4 legislative changes: Repeal 17C-11-5 (a) which requires bicyclists to ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable. Or, if not repeal, add exceptions such as when preparing to make a left turn, to avoid hazards such as debris, glass, holes, dogs, etc. and when the road is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane. Repeal 17C-11-5 (c) which says, whenever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway. Amend 17C-7-3 which addresses overtaking and passing to require motorists to allow 4-feet when passing a bicyclist and to pass at a prudent reduced speed. Adopt the 2009 MUTCD.
As you know, I have always resisted messing with legislation because I think most people and perhaps especially legislators hate bicyclists so once they turn their attention on us, we can only but lose out; especially competent bicyclists that operate their bicycles as vehicles. All 50 states have a law that says every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle. Considering the level of bicycle friendliness that WV government has demonstrated, I wouldn't be surprised if WV were the first state to repeal that law or modify it so that we're not allowed on the roads anymore. Nevertheless, there seem to be more and more well-meaning people who are not competent bicyclists promoting new laws and changes to existing laws so I feel compelled to be proactive rather than reactive.
Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor and an experienced lobbyist. I think she's capable of getting something good done for WV bicyclists. She told me that she was 5 years old when she last rode a bike and she's afraid of bicycles. I'm sure she's getting legislation recommendations from all over the state. Since we're one of the few places in WV that has an organized body of bicycling experts, i.e. the BB, our recommendations might get attention.
If you're interested, http://bikemorgantown.com/bikelaw.php has links to relevant law.
I look forward to your responses.
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
Would you then drop the proposal?
On Sep 9, 2012, at 10:41 PM, Ryan Post wrote:
It's a moot point. From what I've heard of PAs enforcent, it only happens when contact is made(0'). Problem being that police don't see things happen and there's no proof of 2'.
On Sep 9, 2012, at 10:29 PM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:
Bicycle Board Members,
Thanks to Chet and Traci for responding to my message below.
Nobody said anything about the proposal to add a 4-foot passing law and I've been giving it some more thought. The main reason I proposed a 4-foot law is that PA recently passed one and 4-feet seemed to be better than 3-feet which most states have. Then, I wondered if since most states have a 3-foot law and only PA has a 4-foot law, would the legislature reject the 4-foot law but maybe look more favorably on a 3-foot law. In my opinion, practically speaking, a fixed distance for passing doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't you want a vehicle that's traveling 65 mph faster than you to give you a little more space than a vehicle traveling 10 mph faster than you? So, instead or a 4-foot law, I would like to propose a law such as New Hampshire's that says, "... at least 3 feet when the vehicle is traveling at 30 miles per hour or less, with one additional foot of clearance required for every 10 miles per hour above 30 miles per hour".
What do you think?
Frank
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: September 4, 2012 1:00:49 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Fwd: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
At last week's meeting with Kasey Russell, Bill Austin and Christiaan Abildso, Kasey asked me to think about a legislative agenda for Connecting Communities. (Recall that in her white paper, she gave two examples: 3 foot passing law and a self-imposed tax on biking community.)
Well, I've given it some thought and wrote the attached document. Please read it and tell me what you think. Feel free to mark it up using track changes and comments and return it to me. Also, check
In it, I am recommending 4 legislative changes: Repeal 17C-11-5 (a) which requires bicyclists to ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable. Or, if not repeal, add exceptions such as when preparing to make a left turn, to avoid hazards such as debris, glass, holes, dogs, etc. and when the road is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane. Repeal 17C-11-5 (c) which says, whenever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway. Amend 17C-7-3 which addresses overtaking and passing to require motorists to allow 4-feet when passing a bicyclist and to pass at a prudent reduced speed. Adopt the 2009 MUTCD.
As you know, I have always resisted messing with legislation because I think most people and perhaps especially legislators hate bicyclists so once they turn their attention on us, we can only but lose out; especially competent bicyclists that operate their bicycles as vehicles. All 50 states have a law that says every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle. Considering the level of bicycle friendliness that WV government has demonstrated, I wouldn't be surprised if WV were the first state to repeal that law or modify it so that we're not allowed on the roads anymore. Nevertheless, there seem to be more and more well-meaning people who are not competent bicyclists promoting new laws and changes to existing laws so I feel compelled to be proactive rather than reactive.
Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor and an experienced lobbyist. I think she's capable of getting something good done for WV bicyclists. She told me that she was 5 years old when she last rode a bike and she's afraid of bicycles. I'm sure she's getting legislation recommendations from all over the state. Since we're one of the few places in WV that has an organized body of bicycling experts, i.e. the BB, our recommendations might get attention.
If you're interested, http://bikemorgantown.com/bikelaw.php has links to relevant law.
I look forward to your responses.
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
<CClegislationV05.docx>
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: August 27, 2012 1:04:53 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
Tomorrow at 8 am, Christiaan, Bill Austin and I will meet with Kasey Russell at Waterfront Place to discuss her new organization, Connecting Communities. Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor. From the attached, " Connecting Communities will provide a unifying voice for citizens, elected officials, and policy leaders to address smart growth and a complete transportation system for our state."
What do you think?
<Connecting Communities_internally (Autosaved).docx>
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com http://wvcompletestreets.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com http://wvcompletestreets.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Traci,
Thanks for responding!
I don't know if incremental language would dissuade. I'm hoping other BB members will provide some wisdom.
Frank
On Sep 10, 2012, at 9:05 AM, Traci Liebig wrote:
Frank,
If you think they would look more favorably on the 3-foot, then do you think it should just be kept specific? In other words, would the incremental language dissuade passage of the law?
Traci
Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com 9/9/2012 10:29 PM >>>
Bicycle Board Members,
Thanks to Chet and Traci for responding to my message below.
Nobody said anything about the proposal to add a 4-foot passing law and I've been giving it some more thought. The main reason I proposed a 4-foot law is that PA recently passed one and 4-feet seemed to be better than 3-feet which most states have. Then, I wondered if since most states have a 3-foot law and only PA has a 4-foot law, would the legislature reject the 4-foot law but maybe look more favorably on a 3-foot law. In my opinion, practically speaking, a fixed distance for passing doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't you want a vehicle that's traveling 65 mph faster than you to give you a little more space than a vehicle traveling 10 mph faster than you? So, instead or a 4-foot law, I would like to propose a law such as New Hampshire's that says, "... at least 3 feet when the vehicle is traveling at 30 miles per hour or less, with one additional foot of clearance required for every 10 miles per hour above 30 miles per hour".
What do you think?
Frank
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: September 4, 2012 1:00:49 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Fwd: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
At last week's meeting with Kasey Russell, Bill Austin and Christiaan Abildso, Kasey asked me to think about a legislative agenda for Connecting Communities. (Recall that in her white paper, she gave two examples: 3 foot passing law and a self-imposed tax on biking community.)
Well, I've given it some thought and wrote the attached document. Please read it and tell me what you think. Feel free to mark it up using track changes and comments and return it to me. Also, check
In it, I am recommending 4 legislative changes: Repeal 17C-11-5 (a) which requires bicyclists to ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable. Or, if not repeal, add exceptions such as when preparing to make a left turn, to avoid hazards such as debris, glass, holes, dogs, etc. and when the road is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane. Repeal 17C-11-5 (c) which says, whenever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway. Amend 17C-7-3 which addresses overtaking and passing to require motorists to allow 4-feet when passing a bicyclist and to pass at a prudent reduced speed. Adopt the 2009 MUTCD.
As you know, I have always resisted messing with legislation because I think most people and perhaps especially legislators hate bicyclists so once they turn their attention on us, we can only but lose out; especially competent bicyclists that operate their bicycles as vehicles. All 50 states have a law that says every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle. Considering the level of bicycle friendliness that WV government has demonstrated, I wouldn't be surprised if WV were the first state to repeal that law or modify it so that we're not allowed on the roads anymore. Nevertheless, there seem to be more and more well-meaning people who are not competent bicyclists promoting new laws and changes to existing laws so I feel compelled to be proactive rather than reactive.
Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor and an experienced lobbyist. I think she's capable of getting something good done for WV bicyclists. She told me that she was 5 years old when she last rode a bike and she's afraid of bicycles. I'm sure she's getting legislation recommendations from all over the state. Since we're one of the few places in WV that has an organized body of bicycling experts, i.e. the BB, our recommendations might get attention.
If you're interested, http://bikemorgantown.com/bikelaw.php has links to relevant law.
I look forward to your responses.
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com http://wvcompletestreets.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
I favor repeal of 17C-11-(a) and 17C-11- 5 (c) (Far to the Right and Mandatory Side Path) as both limit cyclists rights to use reasonable roadways safely and completely. As for 17C-7-3 I favor the amendment in the original document rather than the New Hampshire version. I doubt the legislature would reject it because they feel 3 ft is enough so we might as well go for 4 ft. Hard to believe it would be enforced, regardless.
-------------------------------------------
Stephen G. Graber
Biochem & Mol Pharmacology
PO Box 9142, HSN-3122
West Virginia University
Morgantown, WV 26506-9142
phone: 304-293-2305
------ _0
------ _ <,_
---- (*)/ (*)
________________________________ From: bikeboard-bounces@bikemorgantown.com [bikeboard-bounces@bikemorgantown.com] On Behalf Of Frank Gmeindl [fgmeindl@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 10:29 PM To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Cc: Eric Henrickson Subject: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
Thanks to Chet and Traci for responding to my message below.
Nobody said anything about the proposal to add a 4-foot passing law and I've been giving it some more thought. The main reason I proposed a 4-foot law is that PA recently passed one and 4-feet seemed to be better than 3-feet which most states have. Then, I wondered if since most states have a 3-foot law and only PA has a 4-foot law, would the legislature reject the 4-foot law but maybe look more favorably on a 3-foot law. In my opinion, practically speaking, a fixed distance for passing doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't you want a vehicle that's traveling 65 mph faster than you to give you a little more space than a vehicle traveling 10 mph faster than you? So, instead or a 4-foot law, I would like to propose a law such as New Hampshire's that says, "... at least 3 feet when the vehicle is traveling at 30 miles per hour or less, with one additional foot of clearance required for every 10 miles per hour above 30 miles per hour".
What do you think?
Frank
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl <frank.gmeindl@comcast.netmailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net> Date: September 4, 2012 1:00:49 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.commailto:bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Fwd: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
At last week's meeting with Kasey Russell, Bill Austin and Christiaan Abildso, Kasey asked me to think about a legislative agenda for Connecting Communities. (Recall that in her white paper, she gave two examples: 3 foot passing law and a self-imposed tax on biking community.)
Well, I've given it some thought and wrote the attached document. Please read it and tell me what you think. Feel free to mark it up using track changes and comments and return it to me. Also, check
In it, I am recommending 4 legislative changes:
1. Repeal 17C-11-5 (a) which requires bicyclists to ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable. Or, if not repeal, add exceptions such as when preparing to make a left turn, to avoid hazards such as debris, glass, holes, dogs, etc. and when the road is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane. 2. Repeal 17C-11-5 (c) which says, whenever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway. 3. Amend 17C-7-3 which addresses overtaking and passing to require motorists to allow 4-feet when passing a bicyclist and to pass at a prudent reduced speed. 4. Adopt the 2009 MUTCD.
As you know, I have always resisted messing with legislation because I think most people and perhaps especially legislators hate bicyclists so once they turn their attention on us, we can only but lose out; especially competent bicyclists that operate their bicycles as vehicles. All 50 states have a law that says every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle. Considering the level of bicycle friendliness that WV government has demonstrated, I wouldn't be surprised if WV were the first state to repeal that law or modify it so that we're not allowed on the roads anymore. Nevertheless, there seem to be more and more well-meaning people who are not competent bicyclists promoting new laws and changes to existing laws so I feel compelled to be proactive rather than reactive.
Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor and an experienced lobbyist. I think she's capable of getting something good done for WV bicyclists. She told me that she was 5 years old when she last rode a bike and she's afraid of bicycles. I'm sure she's getting legislation recommendations from all over the state. Since we're one of the few places in WV that has an organized body of bicycling experts, i.e. the BB, our recommendations might get attention.
If you're interested, http://bikemorgantown.com/bikelaw.phphttps://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?8VddBNVVwSUqejhOYYCyYr01A95vl00X2tj4enMx8HV-Ce29KVKVIx8HV2KNgbAaJMJZ0kgAlZk03I9RcgVsSDt4QsTudEII3AS64XI6SjhOrdboP8HV2KNgdbFEw5P22hEw4GMxZFOwhd40BlllK4FO-xKvxYY1NJ4Syrsd79EVuuhspdUnGn has links to relevant law.
I look forward to your responses.
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
That is a lot of math your asking a driver to due while they are talking, texting, changing the radio station and eating a sandwich all while driving 55 in a 35.
J. Damien Davis, PE, CFM Assistant City Engineer City of Morgantown Public Works Department - Engineering Division 389 Spruce Street Morgantown, WV 26505 Office: 304.284.7398 Fax: 304.284.7409 www.morgantown.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Cc: Eric Henrickson moxiemeister@hotmail.com Sent: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 22:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Connecting Communities Bicycle Board Members, Thanks to Chet and Traci for responding to my message below. Nobody said anything about the proposal to add a 4-foot passing law and I've been giving it some more thought. The main reason I proposed a 4-foot law is that PA recently passed one and 4-feet seemed to be better than 3-feet which most states have. Then, I wondered if since most states have a 3-foot law and only PA has a 4-foot law, would the legislature reject the 4-foot law but maybe look more favorably on a 3-foot law. In my opinion, practically speaking, a fixed distance for passing doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't you want a vehicle that's traveling 65 mph faster than you to give you a little more space than a vehicle traveling 10 mph faster than you? So, instead or a 4-foot law, I would like to propose a law such as New Hampshire's that says, "... at least 3 feet when the vehicle is traveling at 30 miles per hour or less, with one additional foot of clearance required for every 10 miles per hour above 30 miles per hour". What do you think? Frank Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: September 4, 2012 1:00:49 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Fwd: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
At last week's meeting with Kasey Russell, Bill Austin and Christiaan Abildso, Kasey asked me to think about a legislative agenda for Connecting Communities. (Recall that in her white paper, she gave two examples: 3 foot passing law and a self-imposed tax on biking community.)
Well, I've given it some thought and wrote the attached document. Please read it and tell me what you think. Feel free to mark it up using track changes and comments and return it to me. Also, check
In it, I am recommending 4 legislative changes: Repeal 17C-11-5 (a) which requires bicyclists to ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable. Or, if not repeal, add exceptions such as when preparing to make a left turn, to avoid hazards such as debris, glass, holes, dogs, etc. and when the road is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane. Repeal 17C-11-5 (c) which says, whenever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway. Amend 17C-7-3 which addresses overtaking and passing to require motorists to allow 4-feet when passing a bicyclist and to pass at a prudent reduced speed. Adopt the 2009 MUTCD.
As you know, I have always resisted messing with legislation because I think most people and perhaps especially legislators hate bicyclists so once they turn their attention on us, we can only but lose out; especially competent bicyclists that operate their bicycles as vehicles. All 50 states have a law that says every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle. Considering the level of bicycle friendliness that WV government has demonstrated, I wouldn't be surprised if WV were the first state to repeal that law or modify it so that we're not allowed on the roads anymore. Nevertheless, there seem to be more and more well-meaning people who are not competent bicyclists promoting new laws and changes to existing laws so I feel compelled to be proactive rather than reactive.
Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor and an experienced lobbyist. I think she's capable of getting something good done for WV bicyclists. She told me that she was 5 years old when she last rode a bike and she's afraid of bicycles. I'm sure she's getting legislation recommendations from all over the state. Since we're one of the few places in WV that has an organized body of bicycling experts, i.e. the BB, our recommendations might get attention.
If you're interested, http://bikemorgantown.com/bikelaw.php has links to relevant law.
I look forward to your responses.
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: August 27, 2012 1:04:53 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
Tomorrow at 8 am, Christiaan, Bill Austin and I will meet with Kasey Russell at Waterfront Place to discuss her new organization, Connecting Communities. Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor. From the attached, " Connecting Communities will provide a unifying voice for citizens, elected officials, and policy leaders to address smart growth and a complete transportation system for our state."
What do you think?
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
If that's directed to my comment, then, no I think it's still a valuable law that more explicitly states what "safe to pass" means. Although, I would assume that if contact occurs during a pass, then it wasn't safe, which is how my understanding of the PA law is being enforced.
Certainly though 3' at 60mph isn't very safe, 4' is better. I wouldn't go for the complicated 3' + 1' for every 10mph over 40 (Texas law I think), or segmented 3' below X speed, 4' above X.
Shoot for 4, let it get shot down to 3? Is that how law makers work? PA is most recent, I would think it's more precedent?
On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:
Would you then drop the proposal?
On Sep 9, 2012, at 10:41 PM, Ryan Post wrote:
It's a moot point. From what I've heard of PAs enforcent, it only happens when contact is made(0'). Problem being that police don't see things happen and there's no proof of 2'.
On Sep 9, 2012, at 10:29 PM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:
Bicycle Board Members,
Thanks to Chet and Traci for responding to my message below.
Nobody said anything about the proposal to add a 4-foot passing law and I've been giving it some more thought. The main reason I proposed a 4-foot law is that PA recently passed one and 4-feet seemed to be better than 3-feet which most states have. Then, I wondered if since most states have a 3-foot law and only PA has a 4-foot law, would the legislature reject the 4-foot law but maybe look more favorably on a 3-foot law. In my opinion, practically speaking, a fixed distance for passing doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't you want a vehicle that's traveling 65 mph faster than you to give you a little more space than a vehicle traveling 10 mph faster than you? So, instead or a 4-foot law, I would like to propose a law such as New Hampshire's that says, "... at least 3 feet when the vehicle is traveling at 30 miles per hour or less, with one additional foot of clearance required for every 10 miles per hour above 30 miles per hour".
What do you think?
Frank
Begin forwarded message:
*From: *Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net *Date: *September 4, 2012 1:00:49 PM EDT *To: *bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com *Subject: **Fwd: Connecting Communities*
Bicycle Board Members,
At last week's meeting with Kasey Russell, Bill Austin and Christiaan Abildso, Kasey asked me to think about a legislative agenda for Connecting Communities. (Recall that in her white paper, she gave two examples: 3 foot passing law and a self-imposed tax on biking community.)
Well, I've given it some thought and wrote the attached document. Please read it and tell me what you think. Feel free to mark it up using track changes and comments and return it to me. Also, check
In it, I am recommending 4 legislative changes:
- Repeal 17C-11-5 (a) which requires bicyclists to ride as near to
the right side of the roadway as practicable. Or, if not repeal, add exceptions such as when preparing to make a left turn, to avoid hazards such as debris, glass, holes, dogs, etc. and when the road is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane. 2. Repeal 17C-11-5 (c) which says, whenever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway. 3. Amend 17C-7-3 which addresses overtaking and passing to require motorists to allow 4-feet when passing a bicyclist and to pass at a prudent reduced speed. 4. Adopt the 2009 MUTCD.
As you know, I have always resisted messing with legislation because I think most people and perhaps especially legislators hate bicyclists so once they turn their attention on us, we can only but lose out; especially competent bicyclists that operate their bicycles as vehicles. All 50 states have a law that says every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle. Considering the level of bicycle friendliness that WV government has demonstrated, I wouldn't be surprised if WV were the first state to repeal that law or modify it so that we're not allowed on the roads anymore. Nevertheless, there seem to be more and more well-meaning people who are not competent bicyclists promoting new laws and changes to existing laws so I feel compelled to be proactive rather than reactive.
Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor and an experienced lobbyist. I think she's capable of getting something good done for WV bicyclists. She told me that she was 5 years old when she last rode a bike and she's afraid of bicycles. I'm sure she's getting legislation recommendations from all over the state. Since we're one of the few places in WV that has an organized body of bicycling experts, i.e. the BB, our recommendations might get attention.
If you're interested, http://bikemorgantown.com/bikelaw.php has links to relevant law.
I look forward to your responses.
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 *Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles* **
<CClegislationV05.docx>
Begin forwarded message:
*From: *Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net *Date: *August 27, 2012 1:04:53 PM EDT *To: *bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com *Subject: **Connecting Communities*
Bicycle Board Members,
Tomorrow at 8 am, Christiaan, Bill Austin and I will meet with Kasey Russell at Waterfront Place to discuss her new organization, Connecting Communities. Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor. From the attached, " Connecting Communities will provide a unifying voice for citizens, elected officials, and policy leaders to address smart growth and a complete transportation system for our state."
What do you think?
<Connecting Communities_internally (Autosaved).docx>
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 *Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles*
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com http://wvcompletestreets.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com http://wvcompletestreets.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Butch,
Thanks for reading the legislation proposals and for your astute observations and recommendations!
In the document, I offer 2 alternatives on 17C-11-5 (a) Far to the Right: 1) repeal it; 2) amend it to include a set of exceptions. Since you favor 1) repealing it, would you recommend that I drop 2) amending it?
Yours and messages from Ryan, Traci and Damien indicate that going with the simple 4-foot passing rule would be a better course so I will revert to that.
Frank
On Sep 10, 2012, at 11:37 AM, Graber, Stephen wrote:
I favor repeal of 17C-11-(a) and 17C-11- 5 (c) (Far to the Right and Mandatory Side Path) as both limit cyclists rights to use reasonable roadways safely and completely. As for 17C-7-3 I favor the amendment in the original document rather than the New Hampshire version. I doubt the legislature would reject it because they feel 3 ft is enough so we might as well go for 4 ft. Hard to believe it would be enforced, regardless.
Stephen G. Graber Biochem & Mol Pharmacology PO Box 9142, HSN-3122 West Virginia University Morgantown, WV 26506-9142 phone: 304-293-2305
------ _0 ------ _ <,_ ---- (*)/ (*) From: bikeboard-bounces@bikemorgantown.com [bikeboard-bounces@bikemorgantown.com] On Behalf Of Frank Gmeindl [fgmeindl@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 10:29 PM To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Cc: Eric Henrickson Subject: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
Thanks to Chet and Traci for responding to my message below.
Nobody said anything about the proposal to add a 4-foot passing law and I've been giving it some more thought. The main reason I proposed a 4-foot law is that PA recently passed one and 4-feet seemed to be better than 3-feet which most states have. Then, I wondered if since most states have a 3-foot law and only PA has a 4-foot law, would the legislature reject the 4-foot law but maybe look more favorably on a 3-foot law. In my opinion, practically speaking, a fixed distance for passing doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't you want a vehicle that's traveling 65 mph faster than you to give you a little more space than a vehicle traveling 10 mph faster than you? So, instead or a 4-foot law, I would like to propose a law such as New Hampshire's that says, "... at least 3 feet when the vehicle is traveling at 30 miles per hour or less, with one additional foot of clearance required for every 10 miles per hour above 30 miles per hour".
What do you think?
Frank
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: September 4, 2012 1:00:49 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Fwd: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
At last week's meeting with Kasey Russell, Bill Austin and Christiaan Abildso, Kasey asked me to think about a legislative agenda for Connecting Communities. (Recall that in her white paper, she gave two examples: 3 foot passing law and a self-imposed tax on biking community.)
Well, I've given it some thought and wrote the attached document. Please read it and tell me what you think. Feel free to mark it up using track changes and comments and return it to me. Also, check
In it, I am recommending 4 legislative changes: Repeal 17C-11-5 (a) which requires bicyclists to ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable. Or, if not repeal, add exceptions such as when preparing to make a left turn, to avoid hazards such as debris, glass, holes, dogs, etc. and when the road is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane. Repeal 17C-11-5 (c) which says, whenever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway. Amend 17C-7-3 which addresses overtaking and passing to require motorists to allow 4-feet when passing a bicyclist and to pass at a prudent reduced speed. Adopt the 2009 MUTCD.
As you know, I have always resisted messing with legislation because I think most people and perhaps especially legislators hate bicyclists so once they turn their attention on us, we can only but lose out; especially competent bicyclists that operate their bicycles as vehicles. All 50 states have a law that says every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle. Considering the level of bicycle friendliness that WV government has demonstrated, I wouldn't be surprised if WV were the first state to repeal that law or modify it so that we're not allowed on the roads anymore. Nevertheless, there seem to be more and more well-meaning people who are not competent bicyclists promoting new laws and changes to existing laws so I feel compelled to be proactive rather than reactive.
Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor and an experienced lobbyist. I think she's capable of getting something good done for WV bicyclists. She told me that she was 5 years old when she last rode a bike and she's afraid of bicycles. I'm sure she's getting legislation recommendations from all over the state. Since we're one of the few places in WV that has an organized body of bicycling experts, i.e. the BB, our recommendations might get attention.
If you're interested, http://bikemorgantown.com/bikelaw.php has links to relevant law.
I look forward to your responses.
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
Damien,
Thanks for your response and observation. Correct me if I'm wrong but I conclude that you favor the previous simpler 4-foot rule.
Frank
On Sep 10, 2012, at 12:11 PM, Damien Davis wrote:
That is a lot of math your asking a driver to due while they are talking, texting, changing the radio station and eating a sandwich all while driving 55 in a 35.
J. Damien Davis, PE, CFM Assistant City Engineer City of Morgantown Public Works Department - Engineering Division 389 Spruce Street Morgantown, WV 26505 Office: 304.284.7398 Fax: 304.284.7409 www.morgantown.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Cc: Eric Henrickson moxiemeister@hotmail.com Sent: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 22:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Connecting Communities Bicycle Board Members, Thanks to Chet and Traci for responding to my message below. Nobody said anything about the proposal to add a 4-foot passing law and I've been giving it some more thought. The main reason I proposed a 4-foot law is that PA recently passed one and 4-feet seemed to be better than 3-feet which most states have. Then, I wondered if since most states have a 3-foot law and only PA has a 4-foot law, would the legislature reject the 4-foot law but maybe look more favorably on a 3-foot law. In my opinion, practically speaking, a fixed distance for passing doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't you want a vehicle that's traveling 65 mph faster than you to give you a little more space than a vehicle traveling 10 mph faster than you? So, instead or a 4-foot law, I would like to propose a law such as New Hampshire's that says, "... at least 3 feet when the vehicle is traveling at 30 miles per hour or less, with one additional foot of clearance required for every 10 miles per hour above 30 miles per hour". What do you think? Frank Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: September 4, 2012 1:00:49 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Fwd: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
At last week's meeting with Kasey Russell, Bill Austin and Christiaan Abildso, Kasey asked me to think about a legislative agenda for Connecting Communities. (Recall that in her white paper, she gave two examples: 3 foot passing law and a self-imposed tax on biking community.)
Well, I've given it some thought and wrote the attached document. Please read it and tell me what you think. Feel free to mark it up using track changes and comments and return it to me. Also, check
In it, I am recommending 4 legislative changes: Repeal 17C-11-5 (a) which requires bicyclists to ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable. Or, if not repeal, add exceptions such as when preparing to make a left turn, to avoid hazards such as debris, glass, holes, dogs, etc. and when the road is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane. Repeal 17C-11-5 (c) which says, whenever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway. Amend 17C-7-3 which addresses overtaking and passing to require motorists to allow 4-feet when passing a bicyclist and to pass at a prudent reduced speed. Adopt the 2009 MUTCD.
As you know, I have always resisted messing with legislation because I think most people and perhaps especially legislators hate bicyclists so once they turn their attention on us, we can only but lose out; especially competent bicyclists that operate their bicycles as vehicles. All 50 states have a law that says every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle. Considering the level of bicycle friendliness that WV government has demonstrated, I wouldn't be surprised if WV were the first state to repeal that law or modify it so that we're not allowed on the roads anymore. Nevertheless, there seem to be more and more well-meaning people who are not competent bicyclists promoting new laws and changes to existing laws so I feel compelled to be proactive rather than reactive.
Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor and an experienced lobbyist. I think she's capable of getting something good done for WV bicyclists. She told me that she was 5 years old when she last rode a bike and she's afraid of bicycles. I'm sure she's getting legislation recommendations from all over the state. Since we're one of the few places in WV that has an organized body of bicycling experts, i.e. the BB, our recommendations might get attention.
If you're interested, http://bikemorgantown.com/bikelaw.php has links to relevant law.
I look forward to your responses.
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: August 27, 2012 1:04:53 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
Tomorrow at 8 am, Christiaan, Bill Austin and I will meet with Kasey Russell at Waterfront Place to discuss her new organization, Connecting Communities. Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor. From the attached, " Connecting Communities will provide a unifying voice for citizens, elected officials, and policy leaders to address smart growth and a complete transportation system for our state."
What do you think?
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
I favor repeal and think the amendment should be dropped. Listing exceptions gets cumbersome and wouldn't be needed if repealed.
-------------------------------------------
Stephen G. Graber
Biochem & Mol Pharmacology
PO Box 9142, HSN-3122
West Virginia University
Morgantown, WV 26506-9142
phone: 304-293-2305
------ _0
------ _ <,_
---- (*)/ (*)
________________________________ From: Frank Gmeindl [fgmeindl@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 12:45 PM To: Graber, Stephen Cc: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com; Eric Henrickson Subject: Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Connecting Communities
Butch,
Thanks for reading the legislation proposals and for your astute observations and recommendations!
In the document, I offer 2 alternatives on 17C-11-5 (a) Far to the Right: 1) repeal it; 2) amend it to include a set of exceptions. Since you favor 1) repealing it, would you recommend that I drop 2) amending it?
Yours and messages from Ryan, Traci and Damien indicate that going with the simple 4-foot passing rule would be a better course so I will revert to that.
Frank
On Sep 10, 2012, at 11:37 AM, Graber, Stephen wrote:
I favor repeal of 17C-11-(a) and 17C-11- 5 (c) (Far to the Right and Mandatory Side Path) as both limit cyclists rights to use reasonable roadways safely and completely. As for 17C-7-3 I favor the amendment in the original document rather than the New Hampshire version. I doubt the legislature would reject it because they feel 3 ft is enough so we might as well go for 4 ft. Hard to believe it would be enforced, regardless. ------------------------------------------- Stephen G. Graber Biochem & Mol Pharmacology PO Box 9142, HSN-3122 West Virginia University Morgantown, WV 26506-9142 phone: 304-293-2305
------ _0 ------ _ <,_ ---- (*)/ (*) ________________________________ From: bikeboard-bounces@bikemorgantown.commailto:bikeboard-bounces@bikemorgantown.com [bikeboard-bounces@bikemorgantown.com] On Behalf Of Frank Gmeindl [fgmeindl@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 10:29 PM To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.commailto:bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Cc: Eric Henrickson Subject: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
Thanks to Chet and Traci for responding to my message below.
Nobody said anything about the proposal to add a 4-foot passing law and I've been giving it some more thought. The main reason I proposed a 4-foot law is that PA recently passed one and 4-feet seemed to be better than 3-feet which most states have. Then, I wondered if since most states have a 3-foot law and only PA has a 4-foot law, would the legislature reject the 4-foot law but maybe look more favorably on a 3-foot law. In my opinion, practically speaking, a fixed distance for passing doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't you want a vehicle that's traveling 65 mph faster than you to give you a little more space than a vehicle traveling 10 mph faster than you? So, instead or a 4-foot law, I would like to propose a law such as New Hampshire's that says, "... at least 3 feet when the vehicle is traveling at 30 miles per hour or less, with one additional foot of clearance required for every 10 miles per hour above 30 miles per hour".
What do you think?
Frank
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl <frank.gmeindl@comcast.netmailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net> Date: September 4, 2012 1:00:49 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.commailto:bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Fwd: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
At last week's meeting with Kasey Russell, Bill Austin and Christiaan Abildso, Kasey asked me to think about a legislative agenda for Connecting Communities. (Recall that in her white paper, she gave two examples: 3 foot passing law and a self-imposed tax on biking community.)
Well, I've given it some thought and wrote the attached document. Please read it and tell me what you think. Feel free to mark it up using track changes and comments and return it to me. Also, check
In it, I am recommending 4 legislative changes:
1. Repeal 17C-11-5 (a) which requires bicyclists to ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable. Or, if not repeal, add exceptions such as when preparing to make a left turn, to avoid hazards such as debris, glass, holes, dogs, etc. and when the road is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane. 2. Repeal 17C-11-5 (c) which says, whenever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway. 3. Amend 17C-7-3 which addresses overtaking and passing to require motorists to allow 4-feet when passing a bicyclist and to pass at a prudent reduced speed. 4. Adopt the 2009 MUTCD.
As you know, I have always resisted messing with legislation because I think most people and perhaps especially legislators hate bicyclists so once they turn their attention on us, we can only but lose out; especially competent bicyclists that operate their bicycles as vehicles. All 50 states have a law that says every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle. Considering the level of bicycle friendliness that WV government has demonstrated, I wouldn't be surprised if WV were the first state to repeal that law or modify it so that we're not allowed on the roads anymore. Nevertheless, there seem to be more and more well-meaning people who are not competent bicyclists promoting new laws and changes to existing laws so I feel compelled to be proactive rather than reactive.
Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor and an experienced lobbyist. I think she's capable of getting something good done for WV bicyclists. She told me that she was 5 years old when she last rode a bike and she's afraid of bicycles. I'm sure she's getting legislation recommendations from all over the state. Since we're one of the few places in WV that has an organized body of bicycling experts, i.e. the BB, our recommendations might get attention.
If you're interested, http://bikemorgantown.com/bikelaw.phphttps://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?8VddBNVVwSUqejhOYYCyYr01A95vl00X2tj4enMx8HV-Ce29KVKVIx8HV2KNgbAaJMJZ0kgAlZk03I9RcgVsSDt4QsTudEII3AS64XI6SjhOrdboP8HV2KNgdbFEw5P22hEw4GMxZFOwhd40BlllK4FO-xKvxYY1NJ4Syrsd79EVuuhspdUnGn has links to relevant law.
I look forward to your responses.
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
Thank you!
On Sep 10, 2012, at 12:47 PM, Graber, Stephen wrote:
I favor repeal and think the amendment should be dropped. Listing exceptions gets cumbersome and wouldn't be needed if repealed.
Stephen G. Graber Biochem & Mol Pharmacology PO Box 9142, HSN-3122 West Virginia University Morgantown, WV 26506-9142 phone: 304-293-2305
------ _0 ------ _ <,_ ---- (*)/ (*) From: Frank Gmeindl [fgmeindl@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 12:45 PM To: Graber, Stephen Cc: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com; Eric Henrickson Subject: Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Connecting Communities
Butch,
Thanks for reading the legislation proposals and for your astute observations and recommendations!
In the document, I offer 2 alternatives on 17C-11-5 (a) Far to the Right: 1) repeal it; 2) amend it to include a set of exceptions. Since you favor 1) repealing it, would you recommend that I drop 2) amending it?
Yours and messages from Ryan, Traci and Damien indicate that going with the simple 4-foot passing rule would be a better course so I will revert to that.
Frank
On Sep 10, 2012, at 11:37 AM, Graber, Stephen wrote:
I favor repeal of 17C-11-(a) and 17C-11- 5 (c) (Far to the Right and Mandatory Side Path) as both limit cyclists rights to use reasonable roadways safely and completely. As for 17C-7-3 I favor the amendment in the original document rather than the New Hampshire version. I doubt the legislature would reject it because they feel 3 ft is enough so we might as well go for 4 ft. Hard to believe it would be enforced, regardless.
Stephen G. Graber Biochem & Mol Pharmacology PO Box 9142, HSN-3122 West Virginia University Morgantown, WV 26506-9142 phone: 304-293-2305
------ _0 ------ _ <,_ ---- (*)/ (*) From: bikeboard-bounces@bikemorgantown.com [bikeboard-bounces@bikemorgantown.com] On Behalf Of Frank Gmeindl [fgmeindl@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 10:29 PM To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Cc: Eric Henrickson Subject: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
Thanks to Chet and Traci for responding to my message below.
Nobody said anything about the proposal to add a 4-foot passing law and I've been giving it some more thought. The main reason I proposed a 4-foot law is that PA recently passed one and 4-feet seemed to be better than 3-feet which most states have. Then, I wondered if since most states have a 3-foot law and only PA has a 4-foot law, would the legislature reject the 4-foot law but maybe look more favorably on a 3-foot law. In my opinion, practically speaking, a fixed distance for passing doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't you want a vehicle that's traveling 65 mph faster than you to give you a little more space than a vehicle traveling 10 mph faster than you? So, instead or a 4-foot law, I would like to propose a law such as New Hampshire's that says, "... at least 3 feet when the vehicle is traveling at 30 miles per hour or less, with one additional foot of clearance required for every 10 miles per hour above 30 miles per hour".
What do you think?
Frank
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: September 4, 2012 1:00:49 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Fwd: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
At last week's meeting with Kasey Russell, Bill Austin and Christiaan Abildso, Kasey asked me to think about a legislative agenda for Connecting Communities. (Recall that in her white paper, she gave two examples: 3 foot passing law and a self-imposed tax on biking community.)
Well, I've given it some thought and wrote the attached document. Please read it and tell me what you think. Feel free to mark it up using track changes and comments and return it to me. Also, check
In it, I am recommending 4 legislative changes: Repeal 17C-11-5 (a) which requires bicyclists to ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable. Or, if not repeal, add exceptions such as when preparing to make a left turn, to avoid hazards such as debris, glass, holes, dogs, etc. and when the road is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane. Repeal 17C-11-5 (c) which says, whenever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway. Amend 17C-7-3 which addresses overtaking and passing to require motorists to allow 4-feet when passing a bicyclist and to pass at a prudent reduced speed. Adopt the 2009 MUTCD.
As you know, I have always resisted messing with legislation because I think most people and perhaps especially legislators hate bicyclists so once they turn their attention on us, we can only but lose out; especially competent bicyclists that operate their bicycles as vehicles. All 50 states have a law that says every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle. Considering the level of bicycle friendliness that WV government has demonstrated, I wouldn't be surprised if WV were the first state to repeal that law or modify it so that we're not allowed on the roads anymore. Nevertheless, there seem to be more and more well-meaning people who are not competent bicyclists promoting new laws and changes to existing laws so I feel compelled to be proactive rather than reactive.
Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor and an experienced lobbyist. I think she's capable of getting something good done for WV bicyclists. She told me that she was 5 years old when she last rode a bike and she's afraid of bicycles. I'm sure she's getting legislation recommendations from all over the state. Since we're one of the few places in WV that has an organized body of bicycling experts, i.e. the BB, our recommendations might get attention.
If you're interested, http://bikemorgantown.com/bikelaw.php has links to relevant law.
I look forward to your responses.
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
Bicycle Board Members,
Thanks to Ryan, Traci, Butch, Damien and Don Spencer for guidance on Connecting Communities recommended legislation.
Please find attached, CClegislationV05.docx which contains changes shown in track changes.
I left the 4-foot passing law as it was rather than changing it to a 3-foot law with distance incremented with speed. I deleted the recommendation to add exceptions to 17C-11-5 (a) Far to the Right so now, we're only recommending to repeal it. I made a few minor changes to make it clearer.
Unless someone objects by the end of the workday today, I'm going to accept the changes, create version 06 and send it to Kasey and the other members of CC.
Frank
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: September 9, 2012 10:29:50 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Cc: Eric Henrickson moxiemeister@hotmail.com Subject: Fwd: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
Thanks to Chet and Traci for responding to my message below.
Nobody said anything about the proposal to add a 4-foot passing law and I've been giving it some more thought. The main reason I proposed a 4-foot law is that PA recently passed one and 4-feet seemed to be better than 3-feet which most states have. Then, I wondered if since most states have a 3-foot law and only PA has a 4-foot law, would the legislature reject the 4-foot law but maybe look more favorably on a 3-foot law. In my opinion, practically speaking, a fixed distance for passing doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't you want a vehicle that's traveling 65 mph faster than you to give you a little more space than a vehicle traveling 10 mph faster than you? So, instead or a 4-foot law, I would like to propose a law such as New Hampshire's that says, "... at least 3 feet when the vehicle is traveling at 30 miles per hour or less, with one additional foot of clearance required for every 10 miles per hour above 30 miles per hour".
What do you think?
Frank
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: September 4, 2012 1:00:49 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Fwd: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
At last week's meeting with Kasey Russell, Bill Austin and Christiaan Abildso, Kasey asked me to think about a legislative agenda for Connecting Communities. (Recall that in her white paper, she gave two examples: 3 foot passing law and a self-imposed tax on biking community.)
Well, I've given it some thought and wrote the attached document. Please read it and tell me what you think. Feel free to mark it up using track changes and comments and return it to me. Also, check
In it, I am recommending 4 legislative changes: Repeal 17C-11-5 (a) which requires bicyclists to ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable. Or, if not repeal, add exceptions such as when preparing to make a left turn, to avoid hazards such as debris, glass, holes, dogs, etc. and when the road is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane. Repeal 17C-11-5 (c) which says, whenever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway. Amend 17C-7-3 which addresses overtaking and passing to require motorists to allow 4-feet when passing a bicyclist and to pass at a prudent reduced speed. Adopt the 2009 MUTCD.
As you know, I have always resisted messing with legislation because I think most people and perhaps especially legislators hate bicyclists so once they turn their attention on us, we can only but lose out; especially competent bicyclists that operate their bicycles as vehicles. All 50 states have a law that says every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle. Considering the level of bicycle friendliness that WV government has demonstrated, I wouldn't be surprised if WV were the first state to repeal that law or modify it so that we're not allowed on the roads anymore. Nevertheless, there seem to be more and more well-meaning people who are not competent bicyclists promoting new laws and changes to existing laws so I feel compelled to be proactive rather than reactive.
Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor and an experienced lobbyist. I think she's capable of getting something good done for WV bicyclists. She told me that she was 5 years old when she last rode a bike and she's afraid of bicycles. I'm sure she's getting legislation recommendations from all over the state. Since we're one of the few places in WV that has an organized body of bicycling experts, i.e. the BB, our recommendations might get attention.
If you're interested, http://bikemorgantown.com/bikelaw.php has links to relevant law.
I look forward to your responses.
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: August 27, 2012 1:04:53 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
Tomorrow at 8 am, Christiaan, Bill Austin and I will meet with Kasey Russell at Waterfront Place to discuss her new organization, Connecting Communities. Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor. From the attached, " Connecting Communities will provide a unifying voice for citizens, elected officials, and policy leaders to address smart growth and a complete transportation system for our state."
What do you think?
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
Looking good!
-------------------------------------------
Stephen G. Graber
Biochem & Mol Pharmacology
PO Box 9142, HSN-3122
West Virginia University
Morgantown, WV 26506-9142
phone: 304-293-2305
------ _0
------ _ <,_
---- (*)/ (*)
________________________________ From: bikeboard-bounces@bikemorgantown.com [bikeboard-bounces@bikemorgantown.com] On Behalf Of Frank Gmeindl [frank.gmeindl@comcast.net] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 4:05 PM To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
Thanks to Ryan, Traci, Butch, Damien and Don Spencer for guidance on Connecting Communities recommended legislation.
Please find attached, CClegislationV05.docx which contains changes shown in track changes.
I left the 4-foot passing law as it was rather than changing it to a 3-foot law with distance incremented with speed. I deleted the recommendation to add exceptions to 17C-11-5 (a) Far to the Right so now, we're only recommending to repeal it. I made a few minor changes to make it clearer.
Unless someone objects by the end of the workday today, I'm going to accept the changes, create version 06 and send it to Kasey and the other members of CC.
Frank
I agree with Frank's proposal based on the example of New Hampshire's law. Whether or not there is enforcement is analogous to enforcement of the use of turn signals. When is the last time you saw someone cited for failure to use a turn signal? It is a rare event, yet there is an expectation based on the law that signals will be used. If there is a stated expectation for bicycle space considerations in the traffic regulations, there will be a percentage of drivers who will be conscious of that when passing cyclists. As it is, there is a fair number of motorists still debating whether it is legal for cyclists to be on the road at all. This might help to solve that question too. There is probably nothing that can garner 100% compliance in the world of traffic laws, but if it can improve safety then it is worth doing.
Eric Henrickson
Moxie for the Masses
On Sep 10, 2012, at 11:15 AM, "Frank Gmeindl" fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:
Would you then drop the proposal?
On Sep 9, 2012, at 10:41 PM, Ryan Post wrote:
It's a moot point. From what I've heard of PAs enforcent, it only happens when contact is made(0'). Problem being that police don't see things happen and there's no proof of 2'.
On Sep 9, 2012, at 10:29 PM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:
Bicycle Board Members,
Thanks to Chet and Traci for responding to my message below.
Nobody said anything about the proposal to add a 4-foot passing law and I've been giving it some more thought. The main reason I proposed a 4-foot law is that PA recently passed one and 4-feet seemed to be better than 3-feet which most states have. Then, I wondered if since most states have a 3-foot law and only PA has a 4-foot law, would the legislature reject the 4-foot law but maybe look more favorably on a 3-foot law. In my opinion, practically speaking, a fixed distance for passing doesn't make much sense. Wouldn't you want a vehicle that's traveling 65 mph faster than you to give you a little more space than a vehicle traveling 10 mph faster than you? So, instead or a 4-foot law, I would like to propose a law such as New Hampshire's that says, "... at least 3 feet when the vehicle is traveling at 30 miles per hour or less, with one additional foot of clearance required for every 10 miles per hour above 30 miles per hour".
What do you think?
Frank
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: September 4, 2012 1:00:49 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Fwd: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
At last week's meeting with Kasey Russell, Bill Austin and Christiaan Abildso, Kasey asked me to think about a legislative agenda for Connecting Communities. (Recall that in her white paper, she gave two examples: 3 foot passing law and a self-imposed tax on biking community.)
Well, I've given it some thought and wrote the attached document. Please read it and tell me what you think. Feel free to mark it up using track changes and comments and return it to me. Also, check
In it, I am recommending 4 legislative changes: Repeal 17C-11-5 (a) which requires bicyclists to ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable. Or, if not repeal, add exceptions such as when preparing to make a left turn, to avoid hazards such as debris, glass, holes, dogs, etc. and when the road is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane. Repeal 17C-11-5 (c) which says, whenever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway. Amend 17C-7-3 which addresses overtaking and passing to require motorists to allow 4-feet when passing a bicyclist and to pass at a prudent reduced speed. Adopt the 2009 MUTCD.
As you know, I have always resisted messing with legislation because I think most people and perhaps especially legislators hate bicyclists so once they turn their attention on us, we can only but lose out; especially competent bicyclists that operate their bicycles as vehicles. All 50 states have a law that says every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle. Considering the level of bicycle friendliness that WV government has demonstrated, I wouldn't be surprised if WV were the first state to repeal that law or modify it so that we're not allowed on the roads anymore. Nevertheless, there seem to be more and more well-meaning people who are not competent bicyclists promoting new laws and changes to existing laws so I feel compelled to be proactive rather than reactive.
Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor and an experienced lobbyist. I think she's capable of getting something good done for WV bicyclists. She told me that she was 5 years old when she last rode a bike and she's afraid of bicycles. I'm sure she's getting legislation recommendations from all over the state. Since we're one of the few places in WV that has an organized body of bicycling experts, i.e. the BB, our recommendations might get attention.
If you're interested, http://bikemorgantown.com/bikelaw.php has links to relevant law.
I look forward to your responses.
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
<CClegislationV05.docx>
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: August 27, 2012 1:04:53 PM EDT To: bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Subject: Connecting Communities
Bicycle Board Members,
Tomorrow at 8 am, Christiaan, Bill Austin and I will meet with Kasey Russell at Waterfront Place to discuss her new organization, Connecting Communities. Kasey is a Charleston City Councilor. From the attached, " Connecting Communities will provide a unifying voice for citizens, elected officials, and policy leaders to address smart growth and a complete transportation system for our state."
What do you think?
<Connecting Communities_internally (Autosaved).docx>
Frank D. Gmeindl Chairman, Morgantown Municipal Bicycle Board LCI #1703 491 WilsonAvenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com http://wvcompletestreets.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
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