A bridge would be quite nice. I heard gossip that WVU couldn't install a bridge without an elevator because of ADA regulations. I really hope that's not true, as it would be crazy, although it would sort-of explain the uselessly inconvenient bridge further down the road. I imagine that the existing bridge is even more irksome to the handicapped than to the bipedal--what an insult to be forced to go a 1/8-1/4 mile out of the way to span 15 feet of pavement from one side of the road to the other. I think I've seen handicapped people crossing right there alongside the "island" in addition to the pedestrians.

I have no ideas that don't involve a big wide bridge without an excess of stairs (preferably none). I guess this would mean funneling the cars through a short tunnel. You'd have to lower road, but it sure would be nice.

Wait, maybe a zipline?

here's an interesting note on herd behavior and street crossings. everyone crosses there because everyone else does!

http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-pedestrians-herd-instinct-road.html

aira

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:

Bicycle Board Members,

Any ideas for improving Grumbein's Island for cycists?

Frank

Begin forwarded message:

*From: *Morgantown Pedestrian Safety Board walkmgw@yahoo.com *Date: *January 28, 2011 2:15:48 PM EST *To: *Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net, Christiaan Abildso < cgabildso@mail.wvu.edu>, Bob Anderson randerson@hsc.wvu.edu, Jon Bond < jbond3@mix.wvu.edu>, Ilana Chertok ichertok@hsc.wvu.edu, Stan Cohen < Stanley.Cohen@mail.wvu.edu>, Chuck Coole ccoole@hsc.wvu.edu, Jan Derry < jderry@nwvcil.org>, Dave Harshbarger harshbargerd@wvuh.com, Dwight Harshbarger dwight.harshbarger@gmail.com, George Lilley < mgranlil@verizon.net>, Regina Mayolo reginam@verizon.net, Jon Miltenberger kokiri4ever@msn.com, Jennifer Noori < thenoorinater@gmail.com>, Bill Reger-Nash wreger@hsc.wvu.edu, Jonathan Rosenbaum freesource@cheat.org, Jimmie Simmons Jsimmons2642@yahoo.com, David Small dsmall1@mix.wvu.edu, Maria Smith mariasmith@busride.org, Don Spencer dspencer36@comcast.net, Martha Summers msummers@hsc.wvu.edu, Angela Wiley wileya120@gmail.com *Subject: **Grumbein's Island meeting*

Fellow pedestrian advocates. I have been invited to attend a meeting with many constituencies to discuss the future of Grumbein's Island (pedestrian area in front of Mountainlair) next Friday at 10:00 AM. The invitees include: Terry Hough - City Don Spencer - City Roy Nutter - City Christaan Abildso - City Bryan Radabaugh - State Alanna Slack - State Perry Keller - State Bill Austin - Mgtn/Mon MPO Rick Colebank - Alpha Assoc Chuck Branch - Alpha Assoc Charlie Luttrell - Alpha Assoc Rob Moyer - WVU Nelson France - WVU Student Bob Merow - WVU Hugh Kierig - WVU

Please submit any suggestions prior to that meeting. Frank, I could especially use some bicycle design ideas for that area (I've also requested that you be invited). Best, Christiaan

*Walk more, safely*

*Morgantown Pedestrian Safety Board*

*Christiaan Abildso, Chair*

*Bill Reger-Nash, Vice Chair*

*http://www.morgantown.com/ped-safety-board.htm*http://www.morgantown.com/ped-safety-board.htm

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I REALLY like the thinking outside the box on this. I was very quickly sold on it, then realized it may also trap people in the middle.

I think a stairway there wouldn't be used by pedestrians, because it'd a long way around vs just crossing the road. Unless the road were lowered, which has its own issues.

From: bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] On Behalf Of John Lozier Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 3:29 PM To: Frank Gmeindl Cc: Bicycle Board; Christiaan Abildso Subject: Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Grumbein's Island meeting

Not just for cyclists but for pedestrians and motorists:

Install a moving gate on the island, that slowly travels back and forth. Gate would be about the length of a car, would break pedestrian traffic into segments segments or "slugs" that would alternate with a car or two.

Best.

On Jan 28, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Frank Gmeindl wrote:

Bicycle Board Members,

Any ideas for improving Grumbein's Island for cycists?

Frank

Begin forwarded message:

From: Morgantown Pedestrian Safety Board walkmgw@yahoo.com

Date: January 28, 2011 2:15:48 PM EST

To: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net, Christiaan Abildso cgabildso@mail.wvu.edu, Bob Anderson randerson@hsc.wvu.edu, Jon Bond jbond3@mix.wvu.edu, Ilana Chertok ichertok@hsc.wvu.edu, Stan Cohen Stanley.Cohen@mail.wvu.edu, Chuck Coole ccoole@hsc.wvu.edu, Jan Derry jderry@nwvcil.org, Dave Harshbarger harshbargerd@wvuh.com, Dwight Harshbarger dwight.harshbarger@gmail.com, George Lilley mgranlil@verizon.net, Regina Mayolo reginam@verizon.net, Jon Miltenberger kokiri4ever@msn.com, Jennifer Noori thenoorinater@gmail.com, Bill Reger-Nash wreger@hsc.wvu.edu, Jonathan Rosenbaum freesource@cheat.org, Jimmie Simmons Jsimmons2642@yahoo.com, David Small dsmall1@mix.wvu.edu, Maria Smith mariasmith@busride.org, Don Spencer dspencer36@comcast.net, Martha Summers msummers@hsc.wvu.edu, Angela Wiley wileya120@gmail.com

Subject: Grumbein's Island meeting

Fellow pedestrian advocates. I have been invited to attend a meeting with many constituencies to discuss the future of Grumbein's Island (pedestrian area in front of Mountainlair) next Friday at 10:00 AM. The invitees include:

Terry Hough - City

Don Spencer - City

Roy Nutter - City

Christaan Abildso - City

Bryan Radabaugh - State

Alanna Slack - State

Perry Keller - State

Bill Austin - Mgtn/Mon MPO

Rick Colebank - Alpha Assoc

Chuck Branch - Alpha Assoc

Charlie Luttrell - Alpha Assoc

Rob Moyer - WVU

Nelson France - WVU Student

Bob Merow - WVU

Hugh Kierig - WVU

Please submit any suggestions prior to that meeting. Frank, I could especially use some bicycle design ideas for that area (I've also requested that you be invited).

Best,

Christiaan

Walk more, safely

Morgantown Pedestrian Safety Board

Christiaan Abildso, Chair

Bill Reger-Nash, Vice Chair

http://www.morgantown.com/ped-safety-board.htm http://www.morgantown.com/ped-safety-board.htm

_______________________________________________

Bikeboard mailing list

Bikeboard@cheat.org

http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard

John Lozier

Morgantown, WV

www.harpingforharmony.org

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 6:00 PM, John Lozier jl@harpingforharmony.org wrote:

The moving gate (or gates) would not trap anyone, just hold them on one side for a short while.

And what would keep those folks from just ignoring it and going around? Like not using the cross walks in the first place?

When Mountainlair was renovated in 80's, it was obvious to some of us that the second floor should have been extended out across University Avenue. But no.

That would have been awesome. Let's push for it again! WVU is flush w/ $$, the city ain't.

Downtown is not going to let the road get shut off. A traffic circle would be an improvement. Currently no U-turn is allowed, this strikes me as counterproductive, dropping folks off is a greater inconvenience and makes more traffic.

That would take up more space and still not do anything about the foot traffic that is all over the place would it? I'm not sure more convenience is what we need.

On Jan 28, 2011, at 4:17 PM, Ryan Post wrote:

I REALLY like the thinking outside the box on this. I was very quickly sold on it, then realized it may also trap people in the middle.

I think a stairway there wouldn’t be used by pedestrians, because it’d a long way around vs just crossing the road.  Unless the road were lowered, which has its own issues.

From: bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] On Behalf Of John Lozier Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 3:29 PM To: Frank Gmeindl Cc: Bicycle Board; Christiaan Abildso Subject: Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Grumbein's Island meeting

Not just for cyclists but for pedestrians and motorists:

Install a moving gate on the island, that slowly travels back and forth. Gate would be about the length of a car, would break pedestrian traffic into segments segments or "slugs" that would alternate with a car or two.

Best.

On Jan 28, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Frank Gmeindl wrote:

Bicycle Board Members,

Any ideas for improving Grumbein's Island for cycists?

Frank

Begin forwarded message:

From: Morgantown Pedestrian Safety Board walkmgw@yahoo.com Date: January 28, 2011 2:15:48 PM EST To: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net, Christiaan Abildso cgabildso@mail.wvu.edu, Bob Anderson randerson@hsc.wvu.edu, Jon Bond jbond3@mix.wvu.edu, Ilana Chertok ichertok@hsc.wvu.edu, Stan Cohen Stanley.Cohen@mail.wvu.edu, Chuck Coole ccoole@hsc.wvu.edu, Jan Derry jderry@nwvcil.org, Dave Harshbarger harshbargerd@wvuh.com, Dwight Harshbarger dwight.harshbarger@gmail.com, George Lilley mgranlil@verizon.net, Regina Mayolo reginam@verizon.net, Jon Miltenberger kokiri4ever@msn.com, Jennifer Noori thenoorinater@gmail.com, Bill Reger-Nash wreger@hsc.wvu.edu, Jonathan Rosenbaum freesource@cheat.org, Jimmie Simmons Jsimmons2642@yahoo.com, David Small dsmall1@mix.wvu.edu, Maria Smith mariasmith@busride.org, Don Spencer dspencer36@comcast.net, Martha Summers msummers@hsc.wvu.edu, Angela Wiley wileya120@gmail.com Subject: Grumbein's Island meeting

Fellow pedestrian advocates. I have been invited to attend a meeting with many constituencies to discuss the future of Grumbein's Island (pedestrian area in front of Mountainlair) next Friday at 10:00 AM. The invitees include: Terry Hough - City Don Spencer - City Roy Nutter - City Christaan Abildso - City Bryan Radabaugh - State Alanna Slack  - State Perry Keller - State Bill Austin - Mgtn/Mon MPO Rick Colebank - Alpha Assoc Chuck Branch - Alpha Assoc Charlie Luttrell - Alpha Assoc Rob Moyer - WVU Nelson France - WVU Student Bob Merow - WVU Hugh Kierig - WVU

Please submit any suggestions prior to that meeting. Frank, I could especially use some bicycle design ideas for that area (I've also requested that you be invited). Best, Christiaan

Walk more, safely

Morgantown Pedestrian Safety Board

Christiaan Abildso, Chair

Bill Reger-Nash, Vice Chair

http://www.morgantown.com/ped-safety-board.htm

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Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard

John Lozier Morgantown, WV www.harpingforharmony.org

John Lozier Morgantown, WV www.harpingforharmony.org

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Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard

Further comment - if main Mountainlair entrance were moved to second floor, traffic to/from Mountainlair would naturally tend to take a bridge that would continue across Grumbein's.

Would not be that big a change. As it is now, once inside Mountainlair you have to walk up steps to first floor, or down steps to basement level.

Take the idea to WVU.

On Jan 28, 2011, at 7:01 PM, Gunnar Shogren wrote:

...

When Mountainlair was renovated in 80's, it was obvious to some of us that the second floor should have been extended out across University Avenue. But no.

That would have been awesome. Let's push for it again! WVU is flush w/ $$, the city ain't.

John Lozier Morgantown, WV www.harpingforharmony.org

The MPO has looked into this in great detail and I would guess that the folks from WVDOH that will be at the meeting were involved in those conversations as well. My impression is that moving the steam lines and other utilities under University Ave are probably more costly than the improvements that would be made.

The grade does not allow for lowering the road but the most cost-effective measure would be a combination of lowering the roadway and then raising the pedestrian mall up to a level at grade with the entrance to the Mountainlair. The problem here is on the other side of University where the grade drops off again to head down to E. Moore Hall and the other buildings. The issues that could not be resolved at the time with this concept was how to screen off pedestrians from just crossing at any point like they do now. Do you put fences or hedges up that steer people to use the overpass?

The one thing that was looked at more than anything was to make Grumbeins Island a pedestrian only mall with movable bollards for emergency vehicles and to route traffic around the Mountainlair using Price, Willey, and Maiden Lane all as two-way travel lanes. This was in conjunction with a widening of Beechurst so I don't know if the travel models would raise red flags - my guess is that they would.

Look at the bottom of page 15 here (http://www.plantogether.org/documents/consultants/Roadway Alternatives Summary.pdf) for summaries of both these items. This is from the initial screening of projects during the last plan at the MPO.

Not an easy solution by any means.

Chet

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Director director@positivespin.org wrote:

Good morning, I concur (and have suggested previously) that the current street level should be turned into a mezzanine with the roadway lowered to allow vehicles through underneath, and regulated to a speed that permits safe sharing with bikes. As far as moving utilities, I suggest they do it - or at least get an honest estimate of what it would cost to do it. Half-measures and ineffective solutions are expensive too.

Nick

On 1/28/2011 2:37 PM, Frank Gmeindl wrote:

Bicycle Board Members,

Any ideas for improving Grumbein's Island for cycists?

Frank

Begin forwarded message:

*From: *Morgantown Pedestrian Safety Board walkmgw@yahoo.com *Date: *January 28, 2011 2:15:48 PM EST *To: *Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net, Christiaan Abildso < cgabildso@mail.wvu.edu>, Bob Anderson randerson@hsc.wvu.edu, Jon Bond < jbond3@mix.wvu.edu>, Ilana Chertok ichertok@hsc.wvu.edu, Stan Cohen < Stanley.Cohen@mail.wvu.edu>, Chuck Coole ccoole@hsc.wvu.edu, Jan Derry < jderry@nwvcil.org>, Dave Harshbarger harshbargerd@wvuh.com, Dwight Harshbarger dwight.harshbarger@gmail.com, George Lilley < mgranlil@verizon.net>, Regina Mayolo reginam@verizon.net, Jon Miltenberger kokiri4ever@msn.com, Jennifer Noori < thenoorinater@gmail.com>, Bill Reger-Nash wreger@hsc.wvu.edu, Jonathan Rosenbaum freesource@cheat.org, Jimmie Simmons Jsimmons2642@yahoo.com, David Small dsmall1@mix.wvu.edu, Maria Smith mariasmith@busride.org, Don Spencer dspencer36@comcast.net, Martha Summers msummers@hsc.wvu.edu, Angela Wiley wileya120@gmail.com *Subject: **Grumbein's Island meeting*

Fellow pedestrian advocates. I have been invited to attend a meeting with many constituencies to discuss the future of Grumbein's Island (pedestrian area in front of Mountainlair) next Friday at 10:00 AM. The invitees include: Terry Hough - City Don Spencer - City Roy Nutter - City Christaan Abildso - City Bryan Radabaugh - State Alanna Slack - State Perry Keller - State Bill Austin - Mgtn/Mon MPO Rick Colebank - Alpha Assoc Chuck Branch - Alpha Assoc Charlie Luttrell - Alpha Assoc Rob Moyer - WVU Nelson France - WVU Student Bob Merow - WVU Hugh Kierig - WVU

Please submit any suggestions prior to that meeting. Frank, I could especially use some bicycle design ideas for that area (I've also requested that you be invited). Best, Christiaan

*Walk more, safely*

*Morgantown Pedestrian Safety Board*

*Christiaan Abildso, Chair*

*Bill Reger-Nash, Vice Chair*

*http://www.morgantown.com/ped-safety-board.htm*http://www.morgantown.com/ped-safety-board.htm

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-- Nick Hein Director, Positive Spin 803 East Brockway Ave Morgantown, WV 265605

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