Bike Route Team,
After riding most of the bike route, I must say that for an experienced vehicular cyclist that isn't intimidated by motor traffic or averse to climbing hills or riding over gravel, it is quite a pleasant adventure with segments ranging from 5-lane traffic such as the Mileground to delightful little secret passageways such as the link connecting Lawnview Dr. with Congress Av.
For other cyclists, I think it is imperative that we indicate high traffic speed or volume, steep hills and gravel. If we don't, the first novice that ventures from the rail trail up Collins Ferry will trash the map and tell all his or her friends and our work will be for naught.
Some suggestions: red line: heavy motor traffic and/or high speed motor traffic chevrons pointing up steep hills: 1 chevron: 5-10% grade; 2 chevrons: 10-15% grade; 3 chevrons: >15% grade broken line: gravel I'm practically ignorant of GIS technology so I must ask you if we can do that and how.
I've put in DropBox and shared with you a scan of the map marked up from our ride and subsequent rides. It's a bit hard to read so following, I explain the marks. The explanations proceed from the top of the map to the bottom. Collins Ferry from rail trail to near the top of the hill: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (Maybe some chevrons.) Riddle, Bishop, Winona coming from West Run: indicate steep hills, 3 chevrons. (I didn't ride up St. Clair Hill Rd. from West Run to Bakers Ridge but I think 3 chevrons pointing from West Run up to Bakers Ridge would be appropriate.) Remove the segment of Winona from Hickory to Charles. Remove Charles to Perry. Add Hickory from Winona to Perry. Add Perry to Charles and keep Charles to RIddle. From Pineview Dr. add Ellen Ln., Heritage Point, Maple Dr., Research Park Rd. to WV 705. Rt. 705 from Pineview to Willowdale: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Add Aspen between Collins Ferry Rd. and Eastern Av. Stafford from Industrial Av. to Congress Av.: indicate steep hill, 3 chevrons. Boyers Av., Mon Blvd., Star City Bridge, Rt. 19 to Osage turnoff: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. University Av. from Koontz to Evansdale Dr.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Remove Medical Center Drive from University Av. to Elmer Prince Dr. Add crosswalk from Elmer Prince Dr. to parking lot by new Erikson Alumni Center, through parking lot to Oakland St. extension that goes under the PRT and into the parking lot. Add Oakland St. from Country Club Dr. to Riverview Dr. Add Country Club Dr. from Oakland St. to Law School Dr. Add Law School Dr. Add Riverview Dr. Add Evansdale Dr. Mileground Rd. from Charles Av. to Airport Blvd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Beechurst Av. / Mon Blvd. from 6th St. to Evansdale Dr. Remove segment of University Av. (Stadium loop) from Falling Run Rd. to Stewart St. Remove segment of Stewart St. from University Av. to Yoke St. Add Falling Run Rd. from University Av. to Yoke St. Add Yoke St. In Westover, Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Savannah St. to Mountain Line station: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Dents Run Blvd. to Lawless Rd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Deckers Creek Trail from Valley Crossing to Forest Av.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line and indicate steep slope, 2 chevrons? (I didn't measure grade but it's pretty steep at both ends. Anybody know the grade?) School Bus Dr.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (I think the "Learning Trail" above this "road" is better for a road bike than the road and would recommend replacing School Bus Dr. with the trail. If we agreed to do that, I'd also propose to replace VoTech Dr. with East Parkway Rd. and Hite St. up to the place where the nice smooth relatively gently sloped trail intersects Hite. I can't see that on the map.)
These are just suggested changes. I would like to discuss whether they are feasible and reach consensus on them before anybody does a lot of work to implement them. Please let me know what you think.
Frank
As far as the googlemaps version is concerned, it appears we can change the color and thickness, but not the line type. We could add points that indicate a steep grade, but I don't think they can be directional. However, the points could be labeled, and textually indicate the direction of the grade and severity.
I agree that grade and traffic are important considerations to the user, and fairly easily notated as you've suggested.
Also remember that we've altered some routes.
I'd also like to point out that we never completed the route from Star City up Univ. There were some 1 way roads up there we weren't sure about.
From: Frank Gmeindl [mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 5:59 PM To: Derek Springston; Ryan Post; Gunnar Shogren; Elizabeth Shogren Cc: jrpetsko petsko; Morgantown Bike Board Subject: Bike Route Map changes
Bike Route Team,
After riding most of the bike route, I must say that for an experienced vehicular cyclist that isn't intimidated by motor traffic or averse to climbing hills or riding over gravel, it is quite a pleasant adventure with segments ranging from 5-lane traffic such as the Mileground to delightful little secret passageways such as the link connecting Lawnview Dr. with Congress Av.
For other cyclists, I think it is imperative that we indicate high traffic speed or volume, steep hills and gravel. If we don't, the first novice that ventures from the rail trail up Collins Ferry will trash the map and tell all his or her friends and our work will be for naught.
Some suggestions:
* red line: heavy motor traffic and/or high speed motor traffic * chevrons pointing up steep hills: 1 chevron: 5-10% grade; 2 chevrons: 10-15% grade; 3 chevrons: >15% grade * broken line: gravel
I'm practically ignorant of GIS technology so I must ask you if we can do that and how.
I've put in DropBox and shared with you a scan of the map marked up from our ride and subsequent rides. It's a bit hard to read so following, I explain the marks. The explanations proceed from the top of the map to the bottom.
1. Collins Ferry from rail trail to near the top of the hill: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (Maybe some chevrons.) 2. Riddle, Bishop, Winona coming from West Run: indicate steep hills, 3 chevrons. (I didn't ride up St. Clair Hill Rd. from West Run to Bakers Ridge but I think 3 chevrons pointing from West Run up to Bakers Ridge would be appropriate.) 3. Remove the segment of Winona from Hickory to Charles. 4. Remove Charles to Perry. 5. Add Hickory from Winona to Perry. 6. Add Perry to Charles and keep Charles to RIddle. 7. From Pineview Dr. add Ellen Ln., Heritage Point, Maple Dr., Research Park Rd. to WV 705. 8. Rt. 705 from Pineview to Willowdale: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 9. Add Aspen between Collins Ferry Rd. and Eastern Av. 10. Stafford from Industrial Av. to Congress Av.: indicate steep hill, 3 chevrons. 11. Boyers Av., Mon Blvd., Star City Bridge, Rt. 19 to Osage turnoff: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 12. University Av. from Koontz to Evansdale Dr.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 13. Remove Medical Center Drive from University Av. to Elmer Prince Dr. 14. Add crosswalk from Elmer Prince Dr. to parking lot by new Erikson Alumni Center, through parking lot to Oakland St. extension that goes under the PRT and into the parking lot. 15. Add Oakland St. from Country Club Dr. to Riverview Dr. 16. Add Country Club Dr. from Oakland St. to Law School Dr. 17. Add Law School Dr. 18. Add Riverview Dr. 19. Add Evansdale Dr. 20. Mileground Rd. from Charles Av. to Airport Blvd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 21. Beechurst Av. / Mon Blvd. from 6th St. to Evansdale Dr. 22. Remove segment of University Av. (Stadium loop) from Falling Run Rd. to Stewart St. 23. Remove segment of Stewart St. from University Av. to Yoke St. 24. Add Falling Run Rd. from University Av. to Yoke St. 25. Add Yoke St. 26. In Westover, Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Savannah St. to Mountain Line station: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 27. Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Dents Run Blvd. to Lawless Rd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 28. Deckers Creek Trail from Valley Crossing to Forest Av.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line and indicate steep slope, 2 chevrons? (I didn't measure grade but it's pretty steep at both ends. Anybody know the grade?) 29. School Bus Dr.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (I think the "Learning Trail" above this "road" is better for a road bike than the road and would recommend replacing School Bus Dr. with the trail. If we agreed to do that, I'd also propose to replace VoTech Dr. with East Parkway Rd. and Hite St. up to the place where the nice smooth relatively gently sloped trail intersects Hite. I can't see that on the map.)
These are just suggested changes. I would like to discuss whether they are feasible and reach consensus on them before anybody does a lot of work to implement them. Please let me know what you think.
Frank
So who all did the ride w/ you on Friday Frank? Was Ryan there?
I think that list looks daunting. Would think it would be better to lay a map out on a table and go through them together. A meeting!! Any one available in the morning this week?
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 6:46 PM, Ryan Post rpostwvu@gmail.com wrote:
As far as the googlemaps version is concerned, it appears we can change the color and thickness, but not the line type. We could add points that indicate a steep grade, but I don’t think they can be directional. However, the points could be labeled, and textually indicate the direction of the grade and severity.
I agree that grade and traffic are important considerations to the user, and fairly easily notated as you’ve suggested.
Also remember that we’ve altered some routes.
I’d also like to point out that we never completed the route from Star City up Univ. There were some 1 way roads up there we weren’t sure about.
From: Frank Gmeindl [mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 5:59 PM To: Derek Springston; Ryan Post; Gunnar Shogren; Elizabeth Shogren Cc: jrpetsko petsko; Morgantown Bike Board Subject: Bike Route Map changes
Bike Route Team,
After riding most of the bike route, I must say that for an experienced vehicular cyclist that isn't intimidated by motor traffic or averse to climbing hills or riding over gravel, it is quite a pleasant adventure with segments ranging from 5-lane traffic such as the Mileground to delightful little secret passageways such as the link connecting Lawnview Dr. with Congress Av.
For other cyclists, I think it is imperative that we indicate high traffic speed or volume, steep hills and gravel. If we don't, the first novice that ventures from the rail trail up Collins Ferry will trash the map and tell all his or her friends and our work will be for naught.
Some suggestions:
red line: heavy motor traffic and/or high speed motor traffic chevrons pointing up steep hills: 1 chevron: 5-10% grade; 2 chevrons: 10-15% grade; 3 chevrons: >15% grade broken line: gravel
I'm practically ignorant of GIS technology so I must ask you if we can do that and how.
I've put in DropBox and shared with you a scan of the map marked up from our ride and subsequent rides. It's a bit hard to read so following, I explain the marks. The explanations proceed from the top of the map to the bottom.
Collins Ferry from rail trail to near the top of the hill: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (Maybe some chevrons.) Riddle, Bishop, Winona coming from West Run: indicate steep hills, 3 chevrons. (I didn't ride up St. Clair Hill Rd. from West Run to Bakers Ridge but I think 3 chevrons pointing from West Run up to Bakers Ridge would be appropriate.) Remove the segment of Winona from Hickory to Charles. Remove Charles to Perry. Add Hickory from Winona to Perry. Add Perry to Charles and keep Charles to RIddle. From Pineview Dr. add Ellen Ln., Heritage Point, Maple Dr., Research Park Rd. to WV 705. Rt. 705 from Pineview to Willowdale: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Add Aspen between Collins Ferry Rd. and Eastern Av. Stafford from Industrial Av. to Congress Av.: indicate steep hill, 3 chevrons. Boyers Av., Mon Blvd., Star City Bridge, Rt. 19 to Osage turnoff: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. University Av. from Koontz to Evansdale Dr.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Remove Medical Center Drive from University Av. to Elmer Prince Dr. Add crosswalk from Elmer Prince Dr. to parking lot by new Erikson Alumni Center, through parking lot to Oakland St. extension that goes under the PRT and into the parking lot. Add Oakland St. from Country Club Dr. to Riverview Dr. Add Country Club Dr. from Oakland St. to Law School Dr. Add Law School Dr. Add Riverview Dr. Add Evansdale Dr. Mileground Rd. from Charles Av. to Airport Blvd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Beechurst Av. / Mon Blvd. from 6th St. to Evansdale Dr. Remove segment of University Av. (Stadium loop) from Falling Run Rd. to Stewart St. Remove segment of Stewart St. from University Av. to Yoke St. Add Falling Run Rd. from University Av. to Yoke St. Add Yoke St. In Westover, Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Savannah St. to Mountain Line station: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Dents Run Blvd. to Lawless Rd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Deckers Creek Trail from Valley Crossing to Forest Av.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line and indicate steep slope, 2 chevrons? (I didn't measure grade but it's pretty steep at both ends. Anybody know the grade?) School Bus Dr.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (I think the "Learning Trail" above this "road" is better for a road bike than the road and would recommend replacing School Bus Dr. with the trail. If we agreed to do that, I'd also propose to replace VoTech Dr. with East Parkway Rd. and Hite St. up to the place where the nice smooth relatively gently sloped trail intersects Hite. I can't see that on the map.)
These are just suggested changes. I would like to discuss whether they are feasible and reach consensus on them before anybody does a lot of work to implement them. Please let me know what you think.
Frank
On Nov 14, 2010, at 10:42 PM, Gunnar Shogren wrote:
So who all did the ride w/ you on Friday Frank?
Just I.
Was Ryan there?
No.
I think that list looks daunting. Would think it would be better to lay a map out on a table and go through them together. A meeting!! Any one available in the morning this week?
Any morning but Friday for me.
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 6:46 PM, Ryan Post rpostwvu@gmail.com wrote:
As far as the googlemaps version is concerned, it appears we can change the color and thickness, but not the line type. We could add points that indicate a steep grade, but I don’t think they can be directional. However, the points could be labeled, and textually indicate the direction of the grade and severity.
I agree that grade and traffic are important considerations to the user, and fairly easily notated as you’ve suggested.
Also remember that we’ve altered some routes.
I’d also like to point out that we never completed the route from Star City up Univ. There were some 1 way roads up there we weren’t sure about.
From: Frank Gmeindl [mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 5:59 PM To: Derek Springston; Ryan Post; Gunnar Shogren; Elizabeth Shogren Cc: jrpetsko petsko; Morgantown Bike Board Subject: Bike Route Map changes
Bike Route Team,
After riding most of the bike route, I must say that for an experienced vehicular cyclist that isn't intimidated by motor traffic or averse to climbing hills or riding over gravel, it is quite a pleasant adventure with segments ranging from 5-lane traffic such as the Mileground to delightful little secret passageways such as the link connecting Lawnview Dr. with Congress Av.
For other cyclists, I think it is imperative that we indicate high traffic speed or volume, steep hills and gravel. If we don't, the first novice that ventures from the rail trail up Collins Ferry will trash the map and tell all his or her friends and our work will be for naught.
Some suggestions:
red line: heavy motor traffic and/or high speed motor traffic chevrons pointing up steep hills: 1 chevron: 5-10% grade; 2 chevrons: 10-15% grade; 3 chevrons: >15% grade broken line: gravel
I'm practically ignorant of GIS technology so I must ask you if we can do that and how.
I've put in DropBox and shared with you a scan of the map marked up from our ride and subsequent rides. It's a bit hard to read so following, I explain the marks. The explanations proceed from the top of the map to the bottom.
Collins Ferry from rail trail to near the top of the hill: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (Maybe some chevrons.) Riddle, Bishop, Winona coming from West Run: indicate steep hills, 3 chevrons. (I didn't ride up St. Clair Hill Rd. from West Run to Bakers Ridge but I think 3 chevrons pointing from West Run up to Bakers Ridge would be appropriate.) Remove the segment of Winona from Hickory to Charles. Remove Charles to Perry. Add Hickory from Winona to Perry. Add Perry to Charles and keep Charles to RIddle. From Pineview Dr. add Ellen Ln., Heritage Point, Maple Dr., Research Park Rd. to WV 705. Rt. 705 from Pineview to Willowdale: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Add Aspen between Collins Ferry Rd. and Eastern Av. Stafford from Industrial Av. to Congress Av.: indicate steep hill, 3 chevrons. Boyers Av., Mon Blvd., Star City Bridge, Rt. 19 to Osage turnoff: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. University Av. from Koontz to Evansdale Dr.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Remove Medical Center Drive from University Av. to Elmer Prince Dr. Add crosswalk from Elmer Prince Dr. to parking lot by new Erikson Alumni Center, through parking lot to Oakland St. extension that goes under the PRT and into the parking lot. Add Oakland St. from Country Club Dr. to Riverview Dr. Add Country Club Dr. from Oakland St. to Law School Dr. Add Law School Dr. Add Riverview Dr. Add Evansdale Dr. Mileground Rd. from Charles Av. to Airport Blvd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Beechurst Av. / Mon Blvd. from 6th St. to Evansdale Dr. Remove segment of University Av. (Stadium loop) from Falling Run Rd. to Stewart St. Remove segment of Stewart St. from University Av. to Yoke St. Add Falling Run Rd. from University Av. to Yoke St. Add Yoke St. In Westover, Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Savannah St. to Mountain Line station: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Dents Run Blvd. to Lawless Rd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Deckers Creek Trail from Valley Crossing to Forest Av.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line and indicate steep slope, 2 chevrons? (I didn't measure grade but it's pretty steep at both ends. Anybody know the grade?) School Bus Dr.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (I think the "Learning Trail" above this "road" is better for a road bike than the road and would recommend replacing School Bus Dr. with the trail. If we agreed to do that, I'd also propose to replace VoTech Dr. with East Parkway Rd. and Hite St. up to the place where the nice smooth relatively gently sloped trail intersects Hite. I can't see that on the map.)
These are just suggested changes. I would like to discuss whether they are feasible and reach consensus on them before anybody does a lot of work to implement them. Please let me know what you think.
Frank
Frank - I am impressed with your riding, your observations and your recommendations! We are fortunate that we have not proceeded further without actually riding the routes as you have done.
Thank you!
Don
_____
From: bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] On Behalf Of Frank Gmeindl Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 5:59 PM To: Derek Springston; Ryan Post; Gunnar Shogren; Elizabeth Shogren Cc: jrpetsko petsko; Morgantown Bike Board Subject: [Bikeboard] Bike Route Map changes
Bike Route Team,
After riding most of the bike route, I must say that for an experienced vehicular cyclist that isn't intimidated by motor traffic or averse to climbing hills or riding over gravel, it is quite a pleasant adventure with segments ranging from 5-lane traffic such as the Mileground to delightful little secret passageways such as the link connecting Lawnview Dr. with Congress Av.
For other cyclists, I think it is imperative that we indicate high traffic speed or volume, steep hills and gravel. If we don't, the first novice that ventures from the rail trail up Collins Ferry will trash the map and tell all his or her friends and our work will be for naught.
Some suggestions:
* red line: heavy motor traffic and/or high speed motor traffic * chevrons pointing up steep hills: 1 chevron: 5-10% grade; 2 chevrons: 10-15% grade; 3 chevrons: >15% grade * broken line: gravel
I'm practically ignorant of GIS technology so I must ask you if we can do that and how.
I've put in DropBox and shared with you a scan of the map marked up from our ride and subsequent rides. It's a bit hard to read so following, I explain the marks. The explanations proceed from the top of the map to the bottom.
1. Collins Ferry from rail trail to near the top of the hill: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (Maybe some chevrons.) 2. Riddle, Bishop, Winona coming from West Run: indicate steep hills, 3 chevrons. (I didn't ride up St. Clair Hill Rd. from West Run to Bakers Ridge but I think 3 chevrons pointing from West Run up to Bakers Ridge would be appropriate.) 3. Remove the segment of Winona from Hickory to Charles. 4. Remove Charles to Perry. 5. Add Hickory from Winona to Perry. 6. Add Perry to Charles and keep Charles to RIddle. 7. From Pineview Dr. add Ellen Ln., Heritage Point, Maple Dr., Research Park Rd. to WV 705. 8. Rt. 705 from Pineview to Willowdale: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 9. Add Aspen between Collins Ferry Rd. and Eastern Av. 10. Stafford from Industrial Av. to Congress Av.: indicate steep hill, 3 chevrons. 11. Boyers Av., Mon Blvd., Star City Bridge, Rt. 19 to Osage turnoff: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 12. University Av. from Koontz to Evansdale Dr.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 13. Remove Medical Center Drive from University Av. to Elmer Prince Dr. 14. Add crosswalk from Elmer Prince Dr. to parking lot by new Erikson Alumni Center, through parking lot to Oakland St. extension that goes under the PRT and into the parking lot. 15. Add Oakland St. from Country Club Dr. to Riverview Dr. 16. Add Country Club Dr. from Oakland St. to Law School Dr. 17. Add Law School Dr. 18. Add Riverview Dr. 19. Add Evansdale Dr. 20. Mileground Rd. from Charles Av. to Airport Blvd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 21. Beechurst Av. / Mon Blvd. from 6th St. to Evansdale Dr. 22. Remove segment of University Av. (Stadium loop) from Falling Run Rd. to Stewart St. 23. Remove segment of Stewart St. from University Av. to Yoke St. 24. Add Falling Run Rd. from University Av. to Yoke St. 25. Add Yoke St. 26. In Westover, Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Savannah St. to Mountain Line station: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 27. Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Dents Run Blvd. to Lawless Rd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 28. Deckers Creek Trail from Valley Crossing to Forest Av.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line and indicate steep slope, 2 chevrons? (I didn't measure grade but it's pretty steep at both ends. Anybody know the grade?) 29. School Bus Dr.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (I think the "Learning Trail" above this "road" is better for a road bike than the road and would recommend replacing School Bus Dr. with the trail. If we agreed to do that, I'd also propose to replace VoTech Dr. with East Parkway Rd. and Hite St. up to the place where the nice smooth relatively gently sloped trail intersects Hite. I can't see that on the map.)
These are just suggested changes. I would like to discuss whether they are feasible and reach consensus on them before anybody does a lot of work to implement them. Please let me know what you think.
Frank
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3253 - Release Date: 11/12/10 05:40:00
Don,
Thanks but you deserve some of the credit for creating it. Thanks also on behalf of Derek, Ryan, gunnar, Betsy and JR and at this point with the map becoming a reality, I must also reach back to Autumn, Steve Harouf, Don D., Jake, Chip, Chet and Ralph as well as Anker Energy and CTL Engineering. We would not have reached this point without all their effort and contributions.
Frank
On Nov 15, 2010, at 7:50 PM, Don Spencer wrote:
Frank - I am impressed with your riding, your observations and your recommendations! We are fortunate that we have not proceeded further without actually riding the routes as you have done.
Thank you!
Don From: bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] On Behalf Of Frank Gmeindl Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 5:59 PM To: Derek Springston; Ryan Post; Gunnar Shogren; Elizabeth Shogren Cc: jrpetsko petsko; Morgantown Bike Board Subject: [Bikeboard] Bike Route Map changes
Bike Route Team,
After riding most of the bike route, I must say that for an experienced vehicular cyclist that isn't intimidated by motor traffic or averse to climbing hills or riding over gravel, it is quite a pleasant adventure with segments ranging from 5-lane traffic such as the Mileground to delightful little secret passageways such as the link connecting Lawnview Dr. with Congress Av.
For other cyclists, I think it is imperative that we indicate high traffic speed or volume, steep hills and gravel. If we don't, the first novice that ventures from the rail trail up Collins Ferry will trash the map and tell all his or her friends and our work will be for naught.
Some suggestions: red line: heavy motor traffic and/or high speed motor traffic chevrons pointing up steep hills: 1 chevron: 5-10% grade; 2 chevrons: 10-15% grade; 3 chevrons: >15% grade broken line: gravel I'm practically ignorant of GIS technology so I must ask you if we can do that and how.
I've put in DropBox and shared with you a scan of the map marked up from our ride and subsequent rides. It's a bit hard to read so following, I explain the marks. The explanations proceed from the top of the map to the bottom. Collins Ferry from rail trail to near the top of the hill: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (Maybe some chevrons.) Riddle, Bishop, Winona coming from West Run: indicate steep hills, 3 chevrons. (I didn't ride up St. Clair Hill Rd. from West Run to Bakers Ridge but I think 3 chevrons pointing from West Run up to Bakers Ridge would be appropriate.) Remove the segment of Winona from Hickory to Charles. Remove Charles to Perry. Add Hickory from Winona to Perry. Add Perry to Charles and keep Charles to RIddle. From Pineview Dr. add Ellen Ln., Heritage Point, Maple Dr., Research Park Rd. to WV 705. Rt. 705 from Pineview to Willowdale: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Add Aspen between Collins Ferry Rd. and Eastern Av. Stafford from Industrial Av. to Congress Av.: indicate steep hill, 3 chevrons. Boyers Av., Mon Blvd., Star City Bridge, Rt. 19 to Osage turnoff: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. University Av. from Koontz to Evansdale Dr.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Remove Medical Center Drive from University Av. to Elmer Prince Dr. Add crosswalk from Elmer Prince Dr. to parking lot by new Erikson Alumni Center, through parking lot to Oakland St. extension that goes under the PRT and into the parking lot. Add Oakland St. from Country Club Dr. to Riverview Dr. Add Country Club Dr. from Oakland St. to Law School Dr. Add Law School Dr. Add Riverview Dr. Add Evansdale Dr. Mileground Rd. from Charles Av. to Airport Blvd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Beechurst Av. / Mon Blvd. from 6th St. to Evansdale Dr. Remove segment of University Av. (Stadium loop) from Falling Run Rd. to Stewart St. Remove segment of Stewart St. from University Av. to Yoke St. Add Falling Run Rd. from University Av. to Yoke St. Add Yoke St. In Westover, Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Savannah St. to Mountain Line station: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Dents Run Blvd. to Lawless Rd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Deckers Creek Trail from Valley Crossing to Forest Av.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line and indicate steep slope, 2 chevrons? (I didn't measure grade but it's pretty steep at both ends. Anybody know the grade?) School Bus Dr.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (I think the "Learning Trail" above this "road" is better for a road bike than the road and would recommend replacing School Bus Dr. with the trail. If we agreed to do that, I'd also propose to replace VoTech Dr. with East Parkway Rd. and Hite St. up to the place where the nice smooth relatively gently sloped trail intersects Hite. I can't see that on the map.)
These are just suggested changes. I would like to discuss whether they are feasible and reach consensus on them before anybody does a lot of work to implement them. Please let me know what you think.
Frank
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3253 - Release Date: 11/12/10 05:40:00
Frank and others, We should probably try to schedule a Bike Route Map meeting in the near future to discuss these changes and get through to a consensus quickly.
Based on Frank's suggestions, I have some comments: We can definitely symbolize lines with varying widths based on traffic and/or traffic speed. If there is data available (which I'll look for) with traffic volumes and speed, that may be our most accurate source data. I can pull in some DEMs (Digital Elevation Models) to look at grade, etc and begin planning for placing chevrons on the route And place a dotted line on the map for gravel areas, as long as I get input on where they all are (Maybe that's listed below)
Please reply to this email ASAP, if you'd like to be part of the Bike Route Map meeting in the near future. Once I know who is involved, we'll pin down a place and time. If anyone knows of good traffic source data, let me know. Thanks, ~Derek
“Every time I see an adult on a bicycle I no longer despair for the future of the human race.” -H.G. Wells
From: frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Subject: Bike Route Map changes Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 17:59:26 -0500 CC: jrpetsko@gmail.com; bikeboard@cheat.org To: guitardeek@hotmail.com; rpostwvu@gmail.com; gshogren@gmail.com; edz4@cdc.gov
Bike Route Team, After riding most of the bike route, I must say that for an experienced vehicular cyclist that isn't intimidated by motor traffic or averse to climbing hills or riding over gravel, it is quite a pleasant adventure with segments ranging from 5-lane traffic such as the Mileground to delightful little secret passageways such as the link connecting Lawnview Dr. with Congress Av. For other cyclists, I think it is imperative that we indicate high traffic speed or volume, steep hills and gravel. If we don't, the first novice that ventures from the rail trail up Collins Ferry will trash the map and tell all his or her friends and our work will be for naught. Some suggestions:red line: heavy motor traffic and/or high speed motor trafficchevrons pointing up steep hills: 1 chevron: 5-10% grade; 2 chevrons: 10-15% grade; 3 chevrons: >15% gradebroken line: gravelI'm practically ignorant of GIS technology so I must ask you if we can do that and how. I've put in DropBox and shared with you a scan of the map marked up from our ride and subsequent rides. It's a bit hard to read so following, I explain the marks. The explanations proceed from the top of the map to the bottom.Collins Ferry from rail trail to near the top of the hill: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (Maybe some chevrons.)Riddle, Bishop, Winona coming from West Run: indicate steep hills, 3 chevrons. (I didn't ride up St. Clair Hill Rd. from West Run to Bakers Ridge but I think 3 chevrons pointing from West Run up to Bakers Ridge would be appropriate.)Remove the segment of Winona from Hickory to Charles.Remove Charles to Perry. Add Hickory from Winona to Perry.Add Perry to Charles and keep Charles to RIddle.From Pineview Dr. add Ellen Ln., Heritage Point, Maple Dr., Research Park Rd. to WV 705.Rt. 705 from Pineview to Willowdale: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line.Add Aspen between Collins Ferry Rd. and Eastern Av.Stafford from Industrial Av. to Congress Av.: indicate steep hill, 3 chevrons.Boyers Av., Mon Blvd., Star City Bridge, Rt. 19 to Osage turnoff: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line.University Av. from Koontz to Evansdale Dr.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line.Remove Medical Center Drive from University Av. to Elmer Prince Dr.Add crosswalk from Elmer Prince Dr. to parking lot by new Erikson Alumni Center, through parking lot to Oakland St. extension that goes under the PRT and into the parking lot. Add Oakland St. from Country Club Dr. to Riverview Dr. Add Country Club Dr. from Oakland St. to Law School Dr.Add Law School Dr.Add Riverview Dr.Add Evansdale Dr.Mileground Rd. from Charles Av. to Airport Blvd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line.Beechurst Av. / Mon Blvd. from 6th St. to Evansdale Dr.Remove segment of University Av. (Stadium loop) from Falling Run Rd. to Stewart St. Remove segment of Stewart St. from University Av. to Yoke St.Add Falling Run Rd. from University Av. to Yoke St.Add Yoke St.In Westover, Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Savannah St. to Mountain Line station: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line.Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Dents Run Blvd. to Lawless Rd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line.Deckers Creek Trail from Valley Crossing to Forest Av.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line and indicate steep slope, 2 chevrons? (I didn't measure grade but it's pretty steep at both ends. Anybody know the grade?)School Bus Dr.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (I think the "Learning Trail" above this "road" is better for a road bike than the road and would recommend replacing School Bus Dr. with the trail. If we agreed to do that, I'd also propose to replace VoTech Dr. with East Parkway Rd. and Hite St. up to the place where the nice smooth relatively gently sloped trail intersects Hite. I can't see that on the map.) These are just suggested changes. I would like to discuss whether they are feasible and reach consensus on them before anybody does a lot of work to implement them. Please let me know what you think. Frank
On Nov 16, 2010, at 9:49 AM, Derek Springston wrote:
Frank and others, We should probably try to schedule a Bike Route Map meeting in the near future to discuss these changes and get through to a consensus quickly.
gunnar already suggested a morning meeting. I replied that I'm available any morning this week except Friday. I'm also available during the day and evening any day this week except Friday.
Based on Frank's suggestions, I have some comments: We can definitely symbolize lines with varying widths based on traffic and/or traffic speed. If there is data available (which I'll look for) with traffic volumes and speed, that may be our most accurate source data. I can pull in some DEMs (Digital Elevation Models) to look at grade, etc and begin planning for placing chevrons on the route And place a dotted line on the map for gravel areas, as long as I get input on where they all are (Maybe that's listed below)
Please reply to this email ASAP, if you'd like to be part of the Bike Route Map meeting in the near future. Once I know who is involved, we'll pin down a place and time. If anyone knows of good traffic source data, let me know. Thanks, ~Derek
“Every time I see an adult on a bicycle I no longer despair for the future of the human race.” -H.G. Wells
From: frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Subject: Bike Route Map changes Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 17:59:26 -0500 CC: jrpetsko@gmail.com; bikeboard@cheat.org To: guitardeek@hotmail.com; rpostwvu@gmail.com; gshogren@gmail.com; edz4@cdc.gov
Bike Route Team,
After riding most of the bike route, I must say that for an experienced vehicular cyclist that isn't intimidated by motor traffic or averse to climbing hills or riding over gravel, it is quite a pleasant adventure with segments ranging from 5-lane traffic such as the Mileground to delightful little secret passageways such as the link connecting Lawnview Dr. with Congress Av.
For other cyclists, I think it is imperative that we indicate high traffic speed or volume, steep hills and gravel. If we don't, the first novice that ventures from the rail trail up Collins Ferry will trash the map and tell all his or her friends and our work will be for naught.
Some suggestions: red line: heavy motor traffic and/or high speed motor traffic chevrons pointing up steep hills: 1 chevron: 5-10% grade; 2 chevrons: 10-15% grade; 3 chevrons: >15% grade broken line: gravel I'm practically ignorant of GIS technology so I must ask you if we can do that and how.
I've put in DropBox and shared with you a scan of the map marked up from our ride and subsequent rides. It's a bit hard to read so following, I explain the marks. The explanations proceed from the top of the map to the bottom. Collins Ferry from rail trail to near the top of the hill: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (Maybe some chevrons.) Riddle, Bishop, Winona coming from West Run: indicate steep hills, 3 chevrons. (I didn't ride up St. Clair Hill Rd. from West Run to Bakers Ridge but I think 3 chevrons pointing from West Run up to Bakers Ridge would be appropriate.) Remove the segment of Winona from Hickory to Charles. Remove Charles to Perry. Add Hickory from Winona to Perry. Add Perry to Charles and keep Charles to RIddle. From Pineview Dr. add Ellen Ln., Heritage Point, Maple Dr., Research Park Rd. to WV 705. Rt. 705 from Pineview to Willowdale: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Add Aspen between Collins Ferry Rd. and Eastern Av. Stafford from Industrial Av. to Congress Av.: indicate steep hill, 3 chevrons. Boyers Av., Mon Blvd., Star City Bridge, Rt. 19 to Osage turnoff: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. University Av. from Koontz to Evansdale Dr.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Remove Medical Center Drive from University Av. to Elmer Prince Dr. Add crosswalk from Elmer Prince Dr. to parking lot by new Erikson Alumni Center, through parking lot to Oakland St. extension that goes under the PRT and into the parking lot. Add Oakland St. from Country Club Dr. to Riverview Dr. Add Country Club Dr. from Oakland St. to Law School Dr. Add Law School Dr. Add Riverview Dr. Add Evansdale Dr. Mileground Rd. from Charles Av. to Airport Blvd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Beechurst Av. / Mon Blvd. from 6th St. to Evansdale Dr. Remove segment of University Av. (Stadium loop) from Falling Run Rd. to Stewart St. Remove segment of Stewart St. from University Av. to Yoke St. Add Falling Run Rd. from University Av. to Yoke St. Add Yoke St. In Westover, Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Savannah St. to Mountain Line station: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Dents Run Blvd. to Lawless Rd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Deckers Creek Trail from Valley Crossing to Forest Av.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line and indicate steep slope, 2 chevrons? (I didn't measure grade but it's pretty steep at both ends. Anybody know the grade?) School Bus Dr.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (I think the "Learning Trail" above this "road" is better for a road bike than the road and would recommend replacing School Bus Dr. with the trail. If we agreed to do that, I'd also propose to replace VoTech Dr. with East Parkway Rd. and Hite St. up to the place where the nice smooth relatively gently sloped trail intersects Hite. I can't see that on the map.)
These are just suggested changes. I would like to discuss whether they are feasible and reach consensus on them before anybody does a lot of work to implement them. Please let me know what you think.
Frank
I can meet on Thursday or Friday mornings. Here's a link to the latest WVDOH traffic counts. I know Bill Austin at the MPO has a traffic counter rig that can be put out if we need specific locations counted. Usually takes a few days to get a good sample.
Chet
http://www.transportation.wv.gov/highways/programplanning/preliminary_engine...
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.netwrote:
On Nov 16, 2010, at 9:49 AM, Derek Springston wrote:
Frank and others, We should probably try to schedule a Bike Route Map meeting in the near future to discuss these changes and get through to a consensus quickly.
gunnar already suggested a morning meeting. I replied that I'm available any morning this week except Friday. I'm also available during the day and evening any day this week except Friday.
Based on Frank's suggestions, I have some comments: We can definitely symbolize lines with varying widths based on traffic and/or traffic speed. If there is data available (which I'll look for) with traffic volumes and speed, that may be our most accurate source data. I can pull in some DEMs (Digital Elevation Models) to look at grade, etc and begin planning for placing chevrons on the route And place a dotted line on the map for gravel areas, as long as I get input on where they all are (Maybe that's listed below)
Please reply to this email ASAP, if you'd like to be part of the Bike Route Map meeting in the near future. Once I know who is involved, we'll pin down a place and time. If anyone knows of good traffic source data, let me know. Thanks, ~Derek
*“Every time I see an adult on a bicycle I no longer despair for the future of the human race.” -H.G. Wells
From: frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Subject: Bike Route Map changes Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 17:59:26 -0500 CC: jrpetsko@gmail.com; bikeboard@cheat.org To: guitardeek@hotmail.com; rpostwvu@gmail.com; gshogren@gmail.com; edz4@cdc.gov
Bike Route Team,
After riding most of the bike route, I must say that for an experienced vehicular cyclist that isn't intimidated by motor traffic or averse to climbing hills or riding over gravel, it is quite a pleasant adventure with segments ranging from 5-lane traffic such as the Mileground to delightful little secret passageways such as the link connecting Lawnview Dr. with Congress Av.
For other cyclists, I think it is imperative that we indicate high traffic speed or volume, steep hills and gravel. If we don't, the first novice that ventures from the rail trail up Collins Ferry will trash the map and tell all his or her friends and our work will be for naught.
Some suggestions:
- red line: heavy motor traffic and/or high speed motor traffic
- chevrons pointing up steep hills: 1 chevron: 5-10% grade; 2
chevrons: 10-15% grade; 3 chevrons: >15% grade
- broken line: gravel
I'm practically ignorant of GIS technology so I must ask you if we can do that and how.
I've put in DropBox and shared with you a scan of the map marked up from our ride and subsequent rides. It's a bit hard to read so following, I explain the marks. The explanations proceed from the top of the map to the bottom.
- Collins Ferry from rail trail to near the top of the hill: indicate
gravel, e.g. broken line. (Maybe some chevrons.) 2. Riddle, Bishop, Winona coming from West Run: indicate steep hills, 3 chevrons. (I didn't ride up St. Clair Hill Rd. from West Run to Bakers Ridge but I think 3 chevrons pointing from West Run up to Bakers Ridge would be appropriate.) 3. Remove the segment of Winona from Hickory to Charles. 4. Remove Charles to Perry. 5. Add Hickory from Winona to Perry. 6. Add Perry to Charles and keep Charles to RIddle. 7. From Pineview Dr. add Ellen Ln., Heritage Point, Maple Dr., Research Park Rd. to WV 705. 8. Rt. 705 from Pineview to Willowdale: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 9. Add Aspen between Collins Ferry Rd. and Eastern Av. 10. Stafford from Industrial Av. to Congress Av.: indicate steep hill, 3 chevrons. 11. Boyers Av., Mon Blvd., Star City Bridge, Rt. 19 to Osage turnoff: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 12. University Av. from Koontz to Evansdale Dr.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 13. Remove Medical Center Drive from University Av. to Elmer Prince Dr. 14. Add crosswalk from Elmer Prince Dr. to parking lot by new Erikson Alumni Center, through parking lot to Oakland St. extension that goes under the PRT and into the parking lot. 15. Add Oakland St. from Country Club Dr. to Riverview Dr. 16. Add Country Club Dr. from Oakland St. to Law School Dr. 17. Add Law School Dr. 18. Add Riverview Dr. 19. Add Evansdale Dr. 20. Mileground Rd. from Charles Av. to Airport Blvd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 21. Beechurst Av. / Mon Blvd. from 6th St. to Evansdale Dr. 22. Remove segment of University Av. (Stadium loop) from Falling Run Rd. to Stewart St. 23. Remove segment of Stewart St. from University Av. to Yoke St. 24. Add Falling Run Rd. from University Av. to Yoke St. 25. Add Yoke St. 26. In Westover, Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Savannah St. to Mountain Line station: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 27. Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Dents Run Blvd. to Lawless Rd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 28. Deckers Creek Trail from Valley Crossing to Forest Av.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line and indicate steep slope, 2 chevrons? (I didn't measure grade but it's pretty steep at both ends. Anybody know the grade?) 29. School Bus Dr.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (I think the "Learning Trail" above this "road" is better for a road bike than the road and would recommend replacing School Bus Dr. with the trail. If we agreed to do that, I'd also propose to replace VoTech Dr. with East Parkway Rd. and Hite St. up to the place where the nice smooth relatively gently sloped trail intersects Hite. I can't see that on the map.)
These are just suggested changes. I would like to discuss whether they are feasible and reach consensus on them before anybody does a lot of work to implement them. Please let me know what you think.
Frank
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Frank, Ok. It is highly unlikely that I can meet in the mornings due to work. I could perhaps be available for a lunchtime meeting or after work. It isn't 100% imperative that I be present though. Just come to a consensus and tell me what you guys need mapped. Make decisions on everything you'd like, communicate that to me, and I should be able to make it happen. Thanks, ~Derek
“Every time I see an adult on a bicycle I no longer despair for the future of the human race.” -H.G. Wells
Subject: Re: Bike Route Map changes From: frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 09:56:05 -0500 CC: rpostwvu@gmail.com; gshogren@gmail.com; edz4@cdc.gov; jrpetsko@gmail.com; bikeboard@cheat.org; chet_parsons@urscorp.com To: guitardeek@hotmail.com
On Nov 16, 2010, at 9:49 AM, Derek Springston wrote:Frank and others, We should probably try to schedule a Bike Route Map meeting in the near future to discuss these changes and get through to a consensus quickly.
gunnar already suggested a morning meeting. I replied that I'm available any morning this week except Friday. I'm also available during the day and evening any day this week except Friday.
Based on Frank's suggestions, I have some comments: We can definitely symbolize lines with varying widths based on traffic and/or traffic speed. If there is data available (which I'll look for) with traffic volumes and speed, that may be our most accurate source data. I can pull in some DEMs (Digital Elevation Models) to look at grade, etc and begin planning for placing chevrons on the route And place a dotted line on the map for gravel areas, as long as I get input on where they all are (Maybe that's listed below)
Please reply to this email ASAP, if you'd like to be part of the Bike Route Map meeting in the near future. Once I know who is involved, we'll pin down a place and time. If anyone knows of good traffic source data, let me know. Thanks, ~Derek
“Every time I see an adult on a bicycle I no longer despair for the future of the human race.” -H.G. Wells
From: frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Subject: Bike Route Map changes Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 17:59:26 -0500 CC: jrpetsko@gmail.com; bikeboard@cheat.org To: guitardeek@hotmail.com; rpostwvu@gmail.com; gshogren@gmail.com; edz4@cdc.gov
Bike Route Team, After riding most of the bike route, I must say that for an experienced vehicular cyclist that isn't intimidated by motor traffic or averse to climbing hills or riding over gravel, it is quite a pleasant adventure with segments ranging from 5-lane traffic such as the Mileground to delightful little secret passageways such as the link connecting Lawnview Dr. with Congress Av. For other cyclists, I think it is imperative that we indicate high traffic speed or volume, steep hills and gravel. If we don't, the first novice that ventures from the rail trail up Collins Ferry will trash the map and tell all his or her friends and our work will be for naught. Some suggestions:red line: heavy motor traffic and/or high speed motor trafficchevrons pointing up steep hills: 1 chevron: 5-10% grade; 2 chevrons: 10-15% grade; 3 chevrons: >15% gradebroken line: gravelI'm practically ignorant of GIS technology so I must ask you if we can do that and how. I've put in DropBox and shared with you a scan of the map marked up from our ride and subsequent rides. It's a bit hard to read so following, I explain the marks. The explanations proceed from the top of the map to the bottom.Collins Ferry from rail trail to near the top of the hill: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (Maybe some chevrons.)Riddle, Bishop, Winona coming from West Run: indicate steep hills, 3 chevrons. (I didn't ride up St. Clair Hill Rd. from West Run to Bakers Ridge but I think 3 chevrons pointing from West Run up to Bakers Ridge would be appropriate.)Remove the segment of Winona from Hickory to Charles.Remove Charles to Perry. Add Hickory from Winona to Perry.Add Perry to Charles and keep Charles to RIddle.From Pineview Dr. add Ellen Ln., Heritage Point, Maple Dr., Research Park Rd. to WV 705.Rt. 705 from Pineview to Willowdale: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line.Add Aspen between Collins Ferry Rd. and Eastern Av.Stafford from Industrial Av. to Congress Av.: indicate steep hill, 3 chevrons.Boyers Av., Mon Blvd., Star City Bridge, Rt. 19 to Osage turnoff: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line.University Av. from Koontz to Evansdale Dr.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line.Remove Medical Center Drive from University Av. to Elmer Prince Dr.Add crosswalk from Elmer Prince Dr. to parking lot by new Erikson Alumni Center, through parking lot to Oakland St. extension that goes under the PRT and into the parking lot. Add Oakland St. from Country Club Dr. to Riverview Dr. Add Country Club Dr. from Oakland St. to Law School Dr.Add Law School Dr.Add Riverview Dr.Add Evansdale Dr.Mileground Rd. from Charles Av. to Airport Blvd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line.Beechurst Av. / Mon Blvd. from 6th St. to Evansdale Dr.Remove segment of University Av. (Stadium loop) from Falling Run Rd. to Stewart St. Remove segment of Stewart St. from University Av. to Yoke St.Add Falling Run Rd. from University Av. to Yoke St.Add Yoke St.In Westover, Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Savannah St. to Mountain Line station: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line.Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Dents Run Blvd. to Lawless Rd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line.Deckers Creek Trail from Valley Crossing to Forest Av.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line and indicate steep slope, 2 chevrons? (I didn't measure grade but it's pretty steep at both ends. Anybody know the grade?)School Bus Dr.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (I think the "Learning Trail" above this "road" is better for a road bike than the road and would recommend replacing School Bus Dr. with the trail. If we agreed to do that, I'd also propose to replace VoTech Dr. with East Parkway Rd. and Hite St. up to the place where the nice smooth relatively gently sloped trail intersects Hite. I can't see that on the map.) These are just suggested changes. I would like to discuss whether they are feasible and reach consensus on them before anybody does a lot of work to implement them. Please let me know what you think. Frank
Lunch works as well.
Chet
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Derek Springston guitardeek@hotmail.comwrote:
Frank, Ok. It is highly unlikely that I can meet in the mornings due to work. I could perhaps be available for a lunchtime meeting or after work. It isn't 100% imperative that I be present though. Just come to a consensus and tell me what you guys need mapped. Make decisions on everything you'd like, communicate that to me, and I should be able to make it happen. Thanks, ~Derek
*“Every time I see an adult on a bicycle I no longer despair for the future of the human race.” -H.G. Wells
Subject: Re: Bike Route Map changes
From: frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 09:56:05 -0500 CC: rpostwvu@gmail.com; gshogren@gmail.com; edz4@cdc.gov; jrpetsko@gmail.com; bikeboard@cheat.org; chet_parsons@urscorp.com To: guitardeek@hotmail.com
On Nov 16, 2010, at 9:49 AM, Derek Springston wrote:
Frank and others, We should probably try to schedule a Bike Route Map meeting in the near future to discuss these changes and get through to a consensus quickly.
gunnar already suggested a morning meeting. I replied that I'm available any morning this week except Friday. I'm also available during the day and evening any day this week except Friday.
Based on Frank's suggestions, I have some comments: We can definitely symbolize lines with varying widths based on traffic and/or traffic speed. If there is data available (which I'll look for) with traffic volumes and speed, that may be our most accurate source data. I can pull in some DEMs (Digital Elevation Models) to look at grade, etc and begin planning for placing chevrons on the route And place a dotted line on the map for gravel areas, as long as I get input on where they all are (Maybe that's listed below)
Please reply to this email ASAP, if you'd like to be part of the Bike Route Map meeting in the near future. Once I know who is involved, we'll pin down a place and time. If anyone knows of good traffic source data, let me know. Thanks, ~Derek
*“Every time I see an adult on a bicycle I no longer despair for the future of the human race.” -H.G. Wells
From: frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Subject: Bike Route Map changes Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 17:59:26 -0500 CC: jrpetsko@gmail.com; bikeboard@cheat.org To: guitardeek@hotmail.com; rpostwvu@gmail.com; gshogren@gmail.com; edz4@cdc.gov
Bike Route Team,
After riding most of the bike route, I must say that for an experienced vehicular cyclist that isn't intimidated by motor traffic or averse to climbing hills or riding over gravel, it is quite a pleasant adventure with segments ranging from 5-lane traffic such as the Mileground to delightful little secret passageways such as the link connecting Lawnview Dr. with Congress Av.
For other cyclists, I think it is imperative that we indicate high traffic speed or volume, steep hills and gravel. If we don't, the first novice that ventures from the rail trail up Collins Ferry will trash the map and tell all his or her friends and our work will be for naught.
Some suggestions:
- red line: heavy motor traffic and/or high speed motor traffic
- chevrons pointing up steep hills: 1 chevron: 5-10% grade; 2
chevrons: 10-15% grade; 3 chevrons: >15% grade
- broken line: gravel
I'm practically ignorant of GIS technology so I must ask you if we can do that and how.
I've put in DropBox and shared with you a scan of the map marked up from our ride and subsequent rides. It's a bit hard to read so following, I explain the marks. The explanations proceed from the top of the map to the bottom.
- Collins Ferry from rail trail to near the top of the hill: indicate
gravel, e.g. broken line. (Maybe some chevrons.) 2. Riddle, Bishop, Winona coming from West Run: indicate steep hills, 3 chevrons. (I didn't ride up St. Clair Hill Rd. from West Run to Bakers Ridge but I think 3 chevrons pointing from West Run up to Bakers Ridge would be appropriate.) 3. Remove the segment of Winona from Hickory to Charles. 4. Remove Charles to Perry. 5. Add Hickory from Winona to Perry. 6. Add Perry to Charles and keep Charles to RIddle. 7. From Pineview Dr. add Ellen Ln., Heritage Point, Maple Dr., Research Park Rd. to WV 705. 8. Rt. 705 from Pineview to Willowdale: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 9. Add Aspen between Collins Ferry Rd. and Eastern Av. 10. Stafford from Industrial Av. to Congress Av.: indicate steep hill, 3 chevrons. 11. Boyers Av., Mon Blvd., Star City Bridge, Rt. 19 to Osage turnoff: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 12. University Av. from Koontz to Evansdale Dr.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 13. Remove Medical Center Drive from University Av. to Elmer Prince Dr. 14. Add crosswalk from Elmer Prince Dr. to parking lot by new Erikson Alumni Center, through parking lot to Oakland St. extension that goes under the PRT and into the parking lot. 15. Add Oakland St. from Country Club Dr. to Riverview Dr. 16. Add Country Club Dr. from Oakland St. to Law School Dr. 17. Add Law School Dr. 18. Add Riverview Dr. 19. Add Evansdale Dr. 20. Mileground Rd. from Charles Av. to Airport Blvd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 21. Beechurst Av. / Mon Blvd. from 6th St. to Evansdale Dr. 22. Remove segment of University Av. (Stadium loop) from Falling Run Rd. to Stewart St. 23. Remove segment of Stewart St. from University Av. to Yoke St. 24. Add Falling Run Rd. from University Av. to Yoke St. 25. Add Yoke St. 26. In Westover, Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Savannah St. to Mountain Line station: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 27. Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Dents Run Blvd. to Lawless Rd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. 28. Deckers Creek Trail from Valley Crossing to Forest Av.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line and indicate steep slope, 2 chevrons? (I didn't measure grade but it's pretty steep at both ends. Anybody know the grade?) 29. School Bus Dr.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (I think the "Learning Trail" above this "road" is better for a road bike than the road and would recommend replacing School Bus Dr. with the trail. If we agreed to do that, I'd also propose to replace VoTech Dr. with East Parkway Rd. and Hite St. up to the place where the nice smooth relatively gently sloped trail intersects Hite. I can't see that on the map.)
These are just suggested changes. I would like to discuss whether they are feasible and reach consensus on them before anybody does a lot of work to implement them. Please let me know what you think.
Frank
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Let's try this to schedule: http://doodle.com/b5wgfbg433f8sz9u
On Nov 16, 2010, at 10:28 AM, Chet Parsons wrote:
Lunch works as well.
Chet
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Derek Springston guitardeek@hotmail.com wrote: Frank, Ok. It is highly unlikely that I can meet in the mornings due to work. I could perhaps be available for a lunchtime meeting or after work. It isn't 100% imperative that I be present though. Just come to a consensus and tell me what you guys need mapped. Make decisions on everything you'd like, communicate that to me, and I should be able to make it happen. Thanks, ~Derek
“Every time I see an adult on a bicycle I no longer despair for the future of the human race.” -H.G. Wells
Subject: Re: Bike Route Map changes
From: frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 09:56:05 -0500 CC: rpostwvu@gmail.com; gshogren@gmail.com; edz4@cdc.gov; jrpetsko@gmail.com; bikeboard@cheat.org; chet_parsons@urscorp.com To: guitardeek@hotmail.com
On Nov 16, 2010, at 9:49 AM, Derek Springston wrote:
Frank and others, We should probably try to schedule a Bike Route Map meeting in the near future to discuss these changes and get through to a consensus quickly.
gunnar already suggested a morning meeting. I replied that I'm available any morning this week except Friday. I'm also available during the day and evening any day this week except Friday.
Based on Frank's suggestions, I have some comments: We can definitely symbolize lines with varying widths based on traffic and/or traffic speed. If there is data available (which I'll look for) with traffic volumes and speed, that may be our most accurate source data. I can pull in some DEMs (Digital Elevation Models) to look at grade, etc and begin planning for placing chevrons on the route And place a dotted line on the map for gravel areas, as long as I get input on where they all are (Maybe that's listed below)
Please reply to this email ASAP, if you'd like to be part of the Bike Route Map meeting in the near future. Once I know who is involved, we'll pin down a place and time. If anyone knows of good traffic source data, let me know. Thanks, ~Derek
“Every time I see an adult on a bicycle I no longer despair for the future of the human race.” -H.G. Wells
From: frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Subject: Bike Route Map changes Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 17:59:26 -0500 CC: jrpetsko@gmail.com; bikeboard@cheat.org To: guitardeek@hotmail.com; rpostwvu@gmail.com; gshogren@gmail.com; edz4@cdc.gov
Bike Route Team,
After riding most of the bike route, I must say that for an experienced vehicular cyclist that isn't intimidated by motor traffic or averse to climbing hills or riding over gravel, it is quite a pleasant adventure with segments ranging from 5-lane traffic such as the Mileground to delightful little secret passageways such as the link connecting Lawnview Dr. with Congress Av.
For other cyclists, I think it is imperative that we indicate high traffic speed or volume, steep hills and gravel. If we don't, the first novice that ventures from the rail trail up Collins Ferry will trash the map and tell all his or her friends and our work will be for naught.
Some suggestions: red line: heavy motor traffic and/or high speed motor traffic chevrons pointing up steep hills: 1 chevron: 5-10% grade; 2 chevrons: 10-15% grade; 3 chevrons: >15% grade broken line: gravel I'm practically ignorant of GIS technology so I must ask you if we can do that and how.
I've put in DropBox and shared with you a scan of the map marked up from our ride and subsequent rides. It's a bit hard to read so following, I explain the marks. The explanations proceed from the top of the map to the bottom. Collins Ferry from rail trail to near the top of the hill: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (Maybe some chevrons.) Riddle, Bishop, Winona coming from West Run: indicate steep hills, 3 chevrons. (I didn't ride up St. Clair Hill Rd. from West Run to Bakers Ridge but I think 3 chevrons pointing from West Run up to Bakers Ridge would be appropriate.) Remove the segment of Winona from Hickory to Charles. Remove Charles to Perry. Add Hickory from Winona to Perry. Add Perry to Charles and keep Charles to RIddle. From Pineview Dr. add Ellen Ln., Heritage Point, Maple Dr., Research Park Rd. to WV 705. Rt. 705 from Pineview to Willowdale: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Add Aspen between Collins Ferry Rd. and Eastern Av. Stafford from Industrial Av. to Congress Av.: indicate steep hill, 3 chevrons. Boyers Av., Mon Blvd., Star City Bridge, Rt. 19 to Osage turnoff: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. University Av. from Koontz to Evansdale Dr.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Remove Medical Center Drive from University Av. to Elmer Prince Dr. Add crosswalk from Elmer Prince Dr. to parking lot by new Erikson Alumni Center, through parking lot to Oakland St. extension that goes under the PRT and into the parking lot. Add Oakland St. from Country Club Dr. to Riverview Dr. Add Country Club Dr. from Oakland St. to Law School Dr. Add Law School Dr. Add Riverview Dr. Add Evansdale Dr. Mileground Rd. from Charles Av. to Airport Blvd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Beechurst Av. / Mon Blvd. from 6th St. to Evansdale Dr. Remove segment of University Av. (Stadium loop) from Falling Run Rd. to Stewart St. Remove segment of Stewart St. from University Av. to Yoke St. Add Falling Run Rd. from University Av. to Yoke St. Add Yoke St. In Westover, Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Savannah St. to Mountain Line station: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Dents Run Blvd. to Lawless Rd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Deckers Creek Trail from Valley Crossing to Forest Av.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line and indicate steep slope, 2 chevrons? (I didn't measure grade but it's pretty steep at both ends. Anybody know the grade?) School Bus Dr.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (I think the "Learning Trail" above this "road" is better for a road bike than the road and would recommend replacing School Bus Dr. with the trail. If we agreed to do that, I'd also propose to replace VoTech Dr. with East Parkway Rd. and Hite St. up to the place where the nice smooth relatively gently sloped trail intersects Hite. I can't see that on the map.)
These are just suggested changes. I would like to discuss whether they are feasible and reach consensus on them before anybody does a lot of work to implement them. Please let me know what you think.
Frank
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
I think we have a quorum for lunch tomorrow, Wednesday. I hope you read this message before it's too late for you to plan to come. I suggest Black Bear which seems to be most centrally located for us all, especially if Derek's cycle commuting and pinched for time.
See you at Black Bear at 11:30 am tomorrow, Wednesday November 17.
I will bring the marked-up map.
Frank
On Nov 16, 2010, at 10:58 AM, Frank Gmeindl wrote:
Let's try this to schedule: http://doodle.com/b5wgfbg433f8sz9u
On Nov 16, 2010, at 10:28 AM, Chet Parsons wrote:
Lunch works as well.
Chet
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Derek Springston guitardeek@hotmail.com wrote: Frank, Ok. It is highly unlikely that I can meet in the mornings due to work. I could perhaps be available for a lunchtime meeting or after work. It isn't 100% imperative that I be present though. Just come to a consensus and tell me what you guys need mapped. Make decisions on everything you'd like, communicate that to me, and I should be able to make it happen. Thanks, ~Derek
“Every time I see an adult on a bicycle I no longer despair for the future of the human race.” -H.G. Wells
Subject: Re: Bike Route Map changes
From: frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 09:56:05 -0500 CC: rpostwvu@gmail.com; gshogren@gmail.com; edz4@cdc.gov; jrpetsko@gmail.com; bikeboard@cheat.org; chet_parsons@urscorp.com To: guitardeek@hotmail.com
On Nov 16, 2010, at 9:49 AM, Derek Springston wrote:
Frank and others, We should probably try to schedule a Bike Route Map meeting in the near future to discuss these changes and get through to a consensus quickly.
gunnar already suggested a morning meeting. I replied that I'm available any morning this week except Friday. I'm also available during the day and evening any day this week except Friday.
Based on Frank's suggestions, I have some comments: We can definitely symbolize lines with varying widths based on traffic and/or traffic speed. If there is data available (which I'll look for) with traffic volumes and speed, that may be our most accurate source data. I can pull in some DEMs (Digital Elevation Models) to look at grade, etc and begin planning for placing chevrons on the route And place a dotted line on the map for gravel areas, as long as I get input on where they all are (Maybe that's listed below)
Please reply to this email ASAP, if you'd like to be part of the Bike Route Map meeting in the near future. Once I know who is involved, we'll pin down a place and time. If anyone knows of good traffic source data, let me know. Thanks, ~Derek
“Every time I see an adult on a bicycle I no longer despair for the future of the human race.” -H.G. Wells
From: frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Subject: Bike Route Map changes Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 17:59:26 -0500 CC: jrpetsko@gmail.com; bikeboard@cheat.org To: guitardeek@hotmail.com; rpostwvu@gmail.com; gshogren@gmail.com; edz4@cdc.gov
Bike Route Team,
After riding most of the bike route, I must say that for an experienced vehicular cyclist that isn't intimidated by motor traffic or averse to climbing hills or riding over gravel, it is quite a pleasant adventure with segments ranging from 5-lane traffic such as the Mileground to delightful little secret passageways such as the link connecting Lawnview Dr. with Congress Av.
For other cyclists, I think it is imperative that we indicate high traffic speed or volume, steep hills and gravel. If we don't, the first novice that ventures from the rail trail up Collins Ferry will trash the map and tell all his or her friends and our work will be for naught.
Some suggestions: red line: heavy motor traffic and/or high speed motor traffic chevrons pointing up steep hills: 1 chevron: 5-10% grade; 2 chevrons: 10-15% grade; 3 chevrons: >15% grade broken line: gravel I'm practically ignorant of GIS technology so I must ask you if we can do that and how.
I've put in DropBox and shared with you a scan of the map marked up from our ride and subsequent rides. It's a bit hard to read so following, I explain the marks. The explanations proceed from the top of the map to the bottom. Collins Ferry from rail trail to near the top of the hill: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (Maybe some chevrons.) Riddle, Bishop, Winona coming from West Run: indicate steep hills, 3 chevrons. (I didn't ride up St. Clair Hill Rd. from West Run to Bakers Ridge but I think 3 chevrons pointing from West Run up to Bakers Ridge would be appropriate.) Remove the segment of Winona from Hickory to Charles. Remove Charles to Perry. Add Hickory from Winona to Perry. Add Perry to Charles and keep Charles to RIddle. From Pineview Dr. add Ellen Ln., Heritage Point, Maple Dr., Research Park Rd. to WV 705. Rt. 705 from Pineview to Willowdale: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Add Aspen between Collins Ferry Rd. and Eastern Av. Stafford from Industrial Av. to Congress Av.: indicate steep hill, 3 chevrons. Boyers Av., Mon Blvd., Star City Bridge, Rt. 19 to Osage turnoff: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. University Av. from Koontz to Evansdale Dr.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Remove Medical Center Drive from University Av. to Elmer Prince Dr. Add crosswalk from Elmer Prince Dr. to parking lot by new Erikson Alumni Center, through parking lot to Oakland St. extension that goes under the PRT and into the parking lot. Add Oakland St. from Country Club Dr. to Riverview Dr. Add Country Club Dr. from Oakland St. to Law School Dr. Add Law School Dr. Add Riverview Dr. Add Evansdale Dr. Mileground Rd. from Charles Av. to Airport Blvd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Beechurst Av. / Mon Blvd. from 6th St. to Evansdale Dr. Remove segment of University Av. (Stadium loop) from Falling Run Rd. to Stewart St. Remove segment of Stewart St. from University Av. to Yoke St. Add Falling Run Rd. from University Av. to Yoke St. Add Yoke St. In Westover, Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Savannah St. to Mountain Line station: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Dents Run Blvd. to Lawless Rd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Deckers Creek Trail from Valley Crossing to Forest Av.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line and indicate steep slope, 2 chevrons? (I didn't measure grade but it's pretty steep at both ends. Anybody know the grade?) School Bus Dr.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (I think the "Learning Trail" above this "road" is better for a road bike than the road and would recommend replacing School Bus Dr. with the trail. If we agreed to do that, I'd also propose to replace VoTech Dr. with East Parkway Rd. and Hite St. up to the place where the nice smooth relatively gently sloped trail intersects Hite. I can't see that on the map.)
These are just suggested changes. I would like to discuss whether they are feasible and reach consensus on them before anybody does a lot of work to implement them. Please let me know what you think.
Frank
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Thanks to Derek, Chet, Ryan and gunnar for showing up today to complete the bike route map.
1. We reviewed and approved the changes recommended during the ride-throughs. 2. We decided to make the rail trail green, high traffic volume and/or high speed roads red and others yellow, blue or a color that shows up well on google maps and in print. Chevrons will indicate steep climbs. Representing gravel still needs to be worked out. 3. Ryan is taking the lead in implementing the changes with Derek's support. 4. When the map is done, we will first release it digitally-only on the BikeMorgantown.com website in a blog that will enable users to comment on the map and to suggest changes. We will monitor the blog and periodically update the map until we feel it is good enough to print. We will need to get funding for printing. 5. We will heavily advertise the map's availability on the website: make a press release; publish in Dominion Post; ask Hugh Kierig to get published in WVU media; ask Jeff Mikorski to publish on channel 15 and the City's website. 6. The paper map will have a QR image that will enable users to photo the image with their iphone or similar device and thereby download the map to their device.
We met at Black Bear, had a good lunch and discovered that the cup of ginger soy is for dipping, not drinking.
Next step is to define bike route signage for the bike route.
Frank
On Nov 16, 2010, at 4:33 PM, Frank Gmeindl wrote:
I think we have a quorum for lunch tomorrow, Wednesday. I hope you read this message before it's too late for you to plan to come. I suggest Black Bear which seems to be most centrally located for us all, especially if Derek's cycle commuting and pinched for time.
See you at Black Bear at 11:30 am tomorrow, Wednesday November 17.
I will bring the marked-up map.
Frank
On Nov 16, 2010, at 10:58 AM, Frank Gmeindl wrote:
Let's try this to schedule: http://doodle.com/b5wgfbg433f8sz9u
On Nov 16, 2010, at 10:28 AM, Chet Parsons wrote:
Lunch works as well.
Chet
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Derek Springston guitardeek@hotmail.com wrote: Frank, Ok. It is highly unlikely that I can meet in the mornings due to work. I could perhaps be available for a lunchtime meeting or after work. It isn't 100% imperative that I be present though. Just come to a consensus and tell me what you guys need mapped. Make decisions on everything you'd like, communicate that to me, and I should be able to make it happen. Thanks, ~Derek
“Every time I see an adult on a bicycle I no longer despair for the future of the human race.” -H.G. Wells
Subject: Re: Bike Route Map changes
From: frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 09:56:05 -0500 CC: rpostwvu@gmail.com; gshogren@gmail.com; edz4@cdc.gov; jrpetsko@gmail.com; bikeboard@cheat.org; chet_parsons@urscorp.com To: guitardeek@hotmail.com
On Nov 16, 2010, at 9:49 AM, Derek Springston wrote:
Frank and others, We should probably try to schedule a Bike Route Map meeting in the near future to discuss these changes and get through to a consensus quickly.
gunnar already suggested a morning meeting. I replied that I'm available any morning this week except Friday. I'm also available during the day and evening any day this week except Friday.
Based on Frank's suggestions, I have some comments: We can definitely symbolize lines with varying widths based on traffic and/or traffic speed. If there is data available (which I'll look for) with traffic volumes and speed, that may be our most accurate source data. I can pull in some DEMs (Digital Elevation Models) to look at grade, etc and begin planning for placing chevrons on the route And place a dotted line on the map for gravel areas, as long as I get input on where they all are (Maybe that's listed below)
Please reply to this email ASAP, if you'd like to be part of the Bike Route Map meeting in the near future. Once I know who is involved, we'll pin down a place and time. If anyone knows of good traffic source data, let me know. Thanks, ~Derek
“Every time I see an adult on a bicycle I no longer despair for the future of the human race.” -H.G. Wells
From: frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Subject: Bike Route Map changes Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 17:59:26 -0500 CC: jrpetsko@gmail.com; bikeboard@cheat.org To: guitardeek@hotmail.com; rpostwvu@gmail.com; gshogren@gmail.com; edz4@cdc.gov
Bike Route Team,
After riding most of the bike route, I must say that for an experienced vehicular cyclist that isn't intimidated by motor traffic or averse to climbing hills or riding over gravel, it is quite a pleasant adventure with segments ranging from 5-lane traffic such as the Mileground to delightful little secret passageways such as the link connecting Lawnview Dr. with Congress Av.
For other cyclists, I think it is imperative that we indicate high traffic speed or volume, steep hills and gravel. If we don't, the first novice that ventures from the rail trail up Collins Ferry will trash the map and tell all his or her friends and our work will be for naught.
Some suggestions: red line: heavy motor traffic and/or high speed motor traffic chevrons pointing up steep hills: 1 chevron: 5-10% grade; 2 chevrons: 10-15% grade; 3 chevrons: >15% grade broken line: gravel I'm practically ignorant of GIS technology so I must ask you if we can do that and how.
I've put in DropBox and shared with you a scan of the map marked up from our ride and subsequent rides. It's a bit hard to read so following, I explain the marks. The explanations proceed from the top of the map to the bottom. Collins Ferry from rail trail to near the top of the hill: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (Maybe some chevrons.) Riddle, Bishop, Winona coming from West Run: indicate steep hills, 3 chevrons. (I didn't ride up St. Clair Hill Rd. from West Run to Bakers Ridge but I think 3 chevrons pointing from West Run up to Bakers Ridge would be appropriate.) Remove the segment of Winona from Hickory to Charles. Remove Charles to Perry. Add Hickory from Winona to Perry. Add Perry to Charles and keep Charles to RIddle. From Pineview Dr. add Ellen Ln., Heritage Point, Maple Dr., Research Park Rd. to WV 705. Rt. 705 from Pineview to Willowdale: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Add Aspen between Collins Ferry Rd. and Eastern Av. Stafford from Industrial Av. to Congress Av.: indicate steep hill, 3 chevrons. Boyers Av., Mon Blvd., Star City Bridge, Rt. 19 to Osage turnoff: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. University Av. from Koontz to Evansdale Dr.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Remove Medical Center Drive from University Av. to Elmer Prince Dr. Add crosswalk from Elmer Prince Dr. to parking lot by new Erikson Alumni Center, through parking lot to Oakland St. extension that goes under the PRT and into the parking lot. Add Oakland St. from Country Club Dr. to Riverview Dr. Add Country Club Dr. from Oakland St. to Law School Dr. Add Law School Dr. Add Riverview Dr. Add Evansdale Dr. Mileground Rd. from Charles Av. to Airport Blvd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Beechurst Av. / Mon Blvd. from 6th St. to Evansdale Dr. Remove segment of University Av. (Stadium loop) from Falling Run Rd. to Stewart St. Remove segment of Stewart St. from University Av. to Yoke St. Add Falling Run Rd. from University Av. to Yoke St. Add Yoke St. In Westover, Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Savannah St. to Mountain Line station: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Dents Run Blvd. to Lawless Rd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Deckers Creek Trail from Valley Crossing to Forest Av.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line and indicate steep slope, 2 chevrons? (I didn't measure grade but it's pretty steep at both ends. Anybody know the grade?) School Bus Dr.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (I think the "Learning Trail" above this "road" is better for a road bike than the road and would recommend replacing School Bus Dr. with the trail. If we agreed to do that, I'd also propose to replace VoTech Dr. with East Parkway Rd. and Hite St. up to the place where the nice smooth relatively gently sloped trail intersects Hite. I can't see that on the map.)
These are just suggested changes. I would like to discuss whether they are feasible and reach consensus on them before anybody does a lot of work to implement them. Please let me know what you think.
Frank
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net wrote:
Thanks to Derek, Chet, Ryan and gunnar for showing up today to complete the bike route map.
- We reviewed and approved the changes recommended during the
ride-throughs. 2. We decided to make the rail trail green, high traffic volume and/or high speed roads red and others yellow, blue or a color that shows up well on google maps and in print. Chevrons will indicate steep climbs. Representing gravel still needs to be worked out. 3. Ryan is taking the lead in implementing the changes with Derek's support. 4. When the map is done, we will first release it digitally-only on the BikeMorgantown.com website in a blog that will enable users to comment on the map and to suggest changes. We will monitor the blog and periodically update the map until we feel it is good enough to print. We will need to get funding for printing. 5. We will heavily advertise the map's availability on the website: make a press release; publish in Dominion Post; ask Hugh Kierig to get published in WVU media; ask Jeff Mikorski to publish on channel 15 and the City's website. 6. The paper map will have a QR image that will enable users to photo the image with their iphone or similar device and thereby download the map to their device. We met at Black Bear, had a good lunch and discovered that the cup of ginger soy is for dipping, not drinking.
Boy you ain't kidding. "Hick, urp."
Next step is to define bike route signage for the bike route. Frank On Nov 16, 2010, at 4:33 PM, Frank Gmeindl wrote:
I think we have a quorum for lunch tomorrow, Wednesday. I hope you read this message before it's too late for you to plan to come. I suggest Black Bear which seems to be most centrally located for us all, especially if Derek's cycle commuting and pinched for time. See you at Black Bear at 11:30 am tomorrow, Wednesday November 17. I will bring the marked-up map. Frank On Nov 16, 2010, at 10:58 AM, Frank Gmeindl wrote:
Let's try this to schedule: http://doodle.com/b5wgfbg433f8sz9u On Nov 16, 2010, at 10:28 AM, Chet Parsons wrote:
Lunch works as well. Chet
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Derek Springston guitardeek@hotmail.com wrote:
Frank, Ok. It is highly unlikely that I can meet in the mornings due to work. I could perhaps be available for a lunchtime meeting or after work. It isn't 100% imperative that I be present though. Just come to a consensus and tell me what you guys need mapped. Make decisions on everything you'd like, communicate that to me, and I should be able to make it happen. Thanks, ~Derek
“Every time I see an adult on a bicycle I no longer despair for the future of the human race.” -H.G. Wells
Subject: Re: Bike Route Map changes From: frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 09:56:05 -0500 CC: rpostwvu@gmail.com; gshogren@gmail.com; edz4@cdc.gov; jrpetsko@gmail.com; bikeboard@cheat.org; chet_parsons@urscorp.com To: guitardeek@hotmail.com
On Nov 16, 2010, at 9:49 AM, Derek Springston wrote:
Frank and others, We should probably try to schedule a Bike Route Map meeting in the near future to discuss these changes and get through to a consensus quickly.
gunnar already suggested a morning meeting. I replied that I'm available any morning this week except Friday. I'm also available during the day and evening any day this week except Friday.
Based on Frank's suggestions, I have some comments: We can definitely symbolize lines with varying widths based on traffic and/or traffic speed. If there is data available (which I'll look for) with traffic volumes and speed, that may be our most accurate source data. I can pull in some DEMs (Digital Elevation Models) to look at grade, etc and begin planning for placing chevrons on the route And place a dotted line on the map for gravel areas, as long as I get input on where they all are (Maybe that's listed below)
Please reply to this email ASAP, if you'd like to be part of the Bike Route Map meeting in the near future. Once I know who is involved, we'll pin down a place and time. If anyone knows of good traffic source data, let me know. Thanks, ~Derek
“Every time I see an adult on a bicycle I no longer despair for the future of the human race.” -H.G. Wells
From: frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Subject: Bike Route Map changes Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 17:59:26 -0500 CC: jrpetsko@gmail.com; bikeboard@cheat.org
To: guitardeek@hotmail.com; rpostwvu@gmail.com; gshogren@gmail.com; edz4@cdc.gov
Bike Route Team, After riding most of the bike route, I must say that for an experienced vehicular cyclist that isn't intimidated by motor traffic or averse to climbing hills or riding over gravel, it is quite a pleasant adventure with segments ranging from 5-lane traffic such as the Mileground to delightful little secret passageways such as the link connecting Lawnview Dr. with Congress Av. For other cyclists, I think it is imperative that we indicate high traffic speed or volume, steep hills and gravel. If we don't, the first novice that ventures from the rail trail up Collins Ferry will trash the map and tell all his or her friends and our work will be for naught. Some suggestions:
red line: heavy motor traffic and/or high speed motor traffic chevrons pointing up steep hills: 1 chevron: 5-10% grade; 2 chevrons: 10-15% grade; 3 chevrons: >15% grade broken line: gravel
I'm practically ignorant of GIS technology so I must ask you if we can do that and how. I've put in DropBox and shared with you a scan of the map marked up from our ride and subsequent rides. It's a bit hard to read so following, I explain the marks. The explanations proceed from the top of the map to the bottom.
Collins Ferry from rail trail to near the top of the hill: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (Maybe some chevrons.) Riddle, Bishop, Winona coming from West Run: indicate steep hills, 3 chevrons. (I didn't ride up St. Clair Hill Rd. from West Run to Bakers Ridge but I think 3 chevrons pointing from West Run up to Bakers Ridge would be appropriate.) Remove the segment of Winona from Hickory to Charles. Remove Charles to Perry. Add Hickory from Winona to Perry. Add Perry to Charles and keep Charles to RIddle. From Pineview Dr. add Ellen Ln., Heritage Point, Maple Dr., Research Park Rd. to WV 705. Rt. 705 from Pineview to Willowdale: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Add Aspen between Collins Ferry Rd. and Eastern Av. Stafford from Industrial Av. to Congress Av.: indicate steep hill, 3 chevrons. Boyers Av., Mon Blvd., Star City Bridge, Rt. 19 to Osage turnoff: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. University Av. from Koontz to Evansdale Dr.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Remove Medical Center Drive from University Av. to Elmer Prince Dr. Add crosswalk from Elmer Prince Dr. to parking lot by new Erikson Alumni Center, through parking lot to Oakland St. extension that goes under the PRT and into the parking lot. Add Oakland St. from Country Club Dr. to Riverview Dr. Add Country Club Dr. from Oakland St. to Law School Dr. Add Law School Dr. Add Riverview Dr. Add Evansdale Dr. Mileground Rd. from Charles Av. to Airport Blvd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Beechurst Av. / Mon Blvd. from 6th St. to Evansdale Dr. Remove segment of University Av. (Stadium loop) from Falling Run Rd. to Stewart St. Remove segment of Stewart St. from University Av. to Yoke St. Add Falling Run Rd. from University Av. to Yoke St. Add Yoke St. In Westover, Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Savannah St. to Mountain Line station: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Fairmont Rd. (Rt. 19) from Dents Run Blvd. to Lawless Rd.: indicate high traffic volume and speed, e.g. red line. Deckers Creek Trail from Valley Crossing to Forest Av.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line and indicate steep slope, 2 chevrons? (I didn't measure grade but it's pretty steep at both ends. Anybody know the grade?) School Bus Dr.: indicate gravel, e.g. broken line. (I think the "Learning Trail" above this "road" is better for a road bike than the road and would recommend replacing School Bus Dr. with the trail. If we agreed to do that, I'd also propose to replace VoTech Dr. with East Parkway Rd. and Hite St. up to the place where the nice smooth relatively gently sloped trail intersects Hite. I can't see that on the map.)
These are just suggested changes. I would like to discuss whether they are feasible and reach consensus on them before anybody does a lot of work to implement them. Please let me know what you think. Frank
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
-
Chet Parsons -
Derek Springston -
Don Spencer -
Frank Gmeindl -
Gunnar Shogren -
Ryan Post