I have been riding West Run for years now for a variety of reasons, even before it was over-developed. There is a posted speed limit of 25 miles an hour, but that is never enforced. In general, most speeding occurs when people are using the road as a short-cut during rush hour. However, the state should explore installing an automated camera to snap photos of license plates of speeders, probably could help offset the cost of making improvements.
One of the most dangerous parts of the road between Van Voorhis and Stewartstown road is the intersection with Riddle. If you are going straight down West Run with your bicycle you definitely don't want to stay close to the curb, or you risk getting hooked by people waiting on Riddle to turn onto West Run. The visuals at the intersection are bad, and drivers misjudge bicyclists speed.
I've enjoyed bicycling on this road. The worst thing I even witnessed was when a large truck had just passed me, and a motorcyclist had just stopped about 50 feet ahead to take a left turn into a new apartment complex, he didn't have a blinker and was using hand signals. Fortunately the truck driver braked fast; the motocyclist probably never realized that he had almost became road kill.
It definitely needs sidewalks. I would rather see sidewalks built then have a special berm installed for cyclists.
-Jonathan
On 1/17/2011 12:21 PM, Don Spencer wrote:
Frank -- From my perspective you and Chet are on target. A road widening along West Run Road might suffice. It would seem that 11 feet might suffice. I fear, however, that wide lanes without markings would produce high rates of speed in places like West Run. If there could be 13 foot motor vehicle lanes, then it might be safer to have bike lanes (with intersection signage) to accommodate even lesser trained bicycle riders.
If the bicycle access can continue from West Run Road to the River, part of the problems for bicycles on Van Voorhis can be avoided. To travel from West Run Road, cyclists (and pedestrians) could have a relatively flat trail access to and from the downtown and downtown campuses and Star City streets via the rail trail.
Don
*From:*Frank Gmeindl [mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net] *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:50 AM *To:* Chet Parsons *Cc:* Don Spencer; Bicycle Board *Subject:* Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run
Thanks, Chet. I had already been there before I replied to Don. Don's message seems to indicate that there's more detail than one finds in the 2030 Transportation Plan to which you refer. Perhaps he just meant that there are more options than we're considering.
In the 2030 plan, a table of non-motorized projects, Table 30 begins on page 111. One project there #8 is, "Include bike-ped facilities in West Run road corridor". The descriptive text below the table says, "This project will ensure that bicycles and pedestrians are accommodated in the West Run Road transportation corridor and an additional connection to the Mon River Trail is provided. As part of the recommended roadway projects a bike trail is proposed along one side of the road." Aside from the bike trail along one side of the road, it doesn't say what those "facilities" might be. A map, Figure 25 on page 98 shows West Run but adds no useful info.
Three other projects that Don might be thinking of are #2, #3 and #4. Project #2 is relevant because it connects the eastern terminus of West Run Rd. near I-68 with the Decker Creek Trail through the Dug Hill Rd. corridor. I raised that in the dialog below. The other projects, as well as the remainder of #2 may be outside the scope of the West Run project. The remainder of #2 goes out to Cheat Lake along 857, #3 goes out Old Cheat Rd. and #4 connects Tyrone Rd. to the Decker Creek Trail through Brookhaven Rd. and Dug Hill Rd. They all involve adding a "bike lane/paved shoulder". Don are these what you meant?
Chet, thanks for prompting me to revisit the 2030 transportation plan. I had forgot much of it. While looking for the pages you indicated, I re-read the motorized plan for West Run. Page 109 contains a nice arial view of the plan to widen West Run, add a 3rd lane from Riddle to Van Voorhis and a description turn lanes to be added at Van Voohis, Riddle, Stewartstown and 119. It will be interesting to compare what DOH now has in mind with that which is currently in the 2030 plan.
Also, I see that item 22 on page 101 is a 3-lane corridor from the Research Park to West Run. That's a pretty big bike path:)
I highly recommend that anyone who worked on the BB Bike Route map study the map, Figure 25 on page 98 of section 9 of the 2030 plan, http://www.plantogether.org/plan.html . It verifies what we did but might give us some other ideas.
Frank
On Jan 17, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Chet Parsons wrote:
I can jump in here - thanks for the idea Don.
I think Don is referring to the nonmotorized segment of the 2030 Plan. If you go to that location on the MPO website you can look at Chapter Nine, the Recommended Plan (http://www.plantogether.org/plan.html). If you go to Page 112 you'll see the nonmotorized Plan. Most of the items referenced are footnoted with a number in a circle - these are highway projects that have a nonmotorized component. You can look back at Table 29 on page 101 for a listing of all the highway projects and their associated costs. Note item 22 there.
Table 30 shows the nonmotorized projects - of note are item 8 for West Run Road (note this plan was done before all the stuff got developed on West Run between Stewartstown and 119.
Chet
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 9:18 AM, Frank Gmeindl <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net> wrote:
Don,
What is the MPO bicycle route plan? Can you point me to it? I did a cursory search of the MPO website and didn't find it. I did find a "screening addendum" (attached) that contains a map showing a couple options around Dug Hill Rd. Is that it?
Frank
On Jan 16, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Don Spencer wrote:
Frank -- On the West Run related issues, I urge you to take a look at the MPO bicycle route plan. There is quite a few recommendations in that plan for establishing a "ring route" from the rail trail in Sabraton to Easton Hill and then down West Run to the River. The information does not address the width issues per se, but I think that referencing the Plan in our discussions with the MPO and DOH is to our advantage.
Don
*From:*bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] *On Behalf Of *Gunnar Shogren *Sent:* Thursday, January 13, 2011 12:47 PM *To:* Frank Gmeindl *Cc:* Bicycle Board *Subject:* Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 12:40 PM, Frank Gmeindl <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net> wrote:
I think we have two concepts. One, is to modify West Run Road to
make it more bike friendly and Two is a segregated path.
Modify West Run Rd. For many years before the District, I rode West Run Rd. several
times/week around 5 pm., always from east to west. See map at http://tinyurl.com/46ofgs3 It was fine except that occasionally, I'd be head-on with some junior doctor zipping along in his BMW or S-2000 and we'd both be eyeing the fence posts, mailboxes and culverts for room to squeeze by. Improving sight-lines is imperative; widening would be nice; shared lane markings and Bicycles May Use Full Lane signs, or at least share the road signs would help. Moving, leveling and realigning the intersection with 119 is also imperative.
I used to ride the old bike route over White Avenue to Dug Hill Rd,
Pierpont Rd., across 857, down Old Cheat Rd. to Easton then along 119 to West Run as shown on the map at http://tinyurl.com/46ofgs3. Except for the little stretches of 857 and 119, there wasn't much traffic but it's quite hilly and would probably discourage novices. However, once West Run is improved, it would be a suitable extension of the bike route with appropriate mapping to indicate the hills and to warn of the high traffic zones on 857 and 119.
Segregated Path The best segregated path option would be as I think Chet is
suggesting, basically between West Run Rd. and West Run creek. Heck, let's propose to go all the way to the Mon River trail in the long run.
Coming from the District out to Easton, you can cross Easton Hill Rd.
and continue out West Run Rd. where it dead-ends at I-68. Crossing the intersection by Easton School will be a challenge. Before I-68, West Run Rd. used to continue up the hill to Pierpont Rd. (Who hasn't ridden through the West Run culverts under I-68? Perhaps you missed the BB initiation ceremony;)
Don Spencer has told me that there has been some discussion of
running a trail along the west side of I-68 over to Sabraton. We should explore this. Then, we could connect with the Decker Creek trail and have a bicycle beltway around the City:) My concern remains that if we put all our energy into projects like this, it will eventually become impossible to ride your bike from the trail to any practical destination because we were diverted from reclaiming the streets that were ours to being with.
At Easton, going up Easton Hill and across the Mileground should be
an option that could be handled by a bicycle climbing lane. If they can crane a shopping center and housing development on the side of that hill and add a full-width travel lane and roundabouts to the Mileground, they can add 8 feet to Easton Hill for a bicycle climbing lane! I still occasionally ride up Easton Hill. It's not pleasant and if you don't take the lane, you'll get squeezed into the guard rail. It is nearly impossible to walk up or down there though because there is absolutely no shoulder.
Untrue! We've seen our buddy NickH going up it a few times. Did not seem like it would be a pleasant experience *at* *all*. But maybe Nick can chime in here.
The hundreds of people living in that valley now would be stranded
and starve to death when the gasoline runs out.
And this would be a bad thing?
Frank
On Jan 13, 2011, at 11:18 AM, Gunnar Shogren wrote:
Wider road and signage. I've biked on it off and on throughout the years, problem is that it just doesn't lead anywhere easily, there's a big hill off it as soon as you go toward town, or even go away from town. Sure not many folks use it now, but perhaps they would if even to go from Apt complex to complex, to play XBox or Magic: The Gathering. Widen that puppy and put some signs up. Nice wide shoulder just to ease the minds of less experienced cyclists as well.
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Chet Parsons <chetparsons@gmail.com
mailto:chetparsons@gmail.com> wrote:
I think Bill Austin already has this stuff in his head, but here's
my two
cents. The section from Van Voorhis to Stewartstown can be used in
combination of
on-street markings and using the floodplain owned by WVU (basically
from the
dairy farm to Pineview). Once you get to Stewartstown, Ryan is right. You'll need to cut down behind Copper Beech and up between it and
the stuff
up on the backside of the Mileground. Follow that route until you
get to
Easton School, which will be closed soon anyway. Then tie in to
whatever
new development is getting ready to go in along 857 out to I-68.
If you
haven't noticed, the DOH has been clearing and widening 857 for about 4 months now and my bet is that there will be a new development with an additional access point by summer. Another option, but will probably be a more expensive easement, is
to create
a couple switchbacks up the farm on the opposite side of the hill
as West
Run Apartments and then run a path through the apartment complex
and out to
119/857. Chet
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Ryan Post <rpostwvu@gmail.com
mailto:rpostwvu@gmail.com> wrote:
West Run, from Stewartstown to 119 (where all the houses are), is
twisty,
narrow and hilly.
Given those conditions, it can never be bike friendly. Road needs
widened
and/or straightened significantly. Or create a separate bike/walk
path. I
doubt many would walk however, since there's very little within ½
mile.
It's a no-man's land of bad planning and shouldn't have been Zoned
on w/o
correcting the road first, IMO.
From: bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org
mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] On
Behalf Of Frank Gmeindl Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 7:36 AM To: Bicycle Board Subject: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run
Bicycle Board Members,
Heads up. What are your ideas for making West Run more bicycle
friendly?
I don't know what DOH is planning for West Run yet. I'll keep you
posted.
Frank
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Bill Austin" <baustin@moncpc.org mailto:baustin@moncpc.org>
Date: January 11, 2011 4:30:44 PM EST
To: "'Frank Gmeindl'" <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net
mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net>
Subject: Work on West Run
Frank,
DOH has a project to improve West Run. They would like to work
with you
and the Board on the proper way to accommodate cyclists. I would
appreciate
discussing the matter with you prior to the CAC Meeting Thursday.
Also, they
let me know they identified five grates along Mon Boulevard that
they will
be replacing.
Thanks,
Bill Austin, AICP
Executive Director
Morgantown Monongalia MPO
82 Hart Field Road Ste. 105
Morgantown, WVA 26505
304-291-9571
304-692-7225 Mobile
"Nobody can go back and make a new beginning, but anyone can start
today
and make a new ending."-Maria Robinson
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I didn't think of it before, but now that West Run zoning has passed,WVDOH needs to plan according to it. I have no idea if that supports our efforts or not. On Jan 17, 2011 9:35 PM, "Jonathan Rosenbaum" freesource@cheat.org wrote:
I have been riding West Run for years now for a variety of reasons, even before it was over-developed. There is a posted speed limit of 25 miles an hour, but that is never enforced. In general, most speeding occurs when people are using the road as a short-cut during rush hour. However, the state should explore installing an automated camera to snap photos of license plates of speeders, probably could help offset the cost of making improvements.
One of the most dangerous parts of the road between Van Voorhis and Stewartstown road is the intersection with Riddle. If you are going straight down West Run with your bicycle you definitely don't want to stay close to the curb, or you risk getting hooked by people waiting on Riddle to turn onto West Run. The visuals at the intersection are bad, and drivers misjudge bicyclists speed.
I've enjoyed bicycling on this road. The worst thing I even witnessed was when a large truck had just passed me, and a motorcyclist had just stopped about 50 feet ahead to take a left turn into a new apartment complex, he didn't have a blinker and was using hand signals. Fortunately the truck driver braked fast; the motocyclist probably never realized that he had almost became road kill.
It definitely needs sidewalks. I would rather see sidewalks built then have a special berm installed for cyclists.
-Jonathan
On 1/17/2011 12:21 PM, Don Spencer wrote:
Frank -- From my perspective you and Chet are on target. A road widening along West Run Road might suffice. It would seem that 11 feet might suffice. I fear, however, that wide lanes without markings would produce high rates of speed in places like West Run. If there could be 13 foot motor vehicle lanes, then it might be safer to have bike lanes (with intersection signage) to accommodate even lesser trained bicycle riders.
If the bicycle access can continue from West Run Road to the River, part of the problems for bicycles on Van Voorhis can be avoided. To travel from West Run Road, cyclists (and pedestrians) could have a relatively flat trail access to and from the downtown and downtown campuses and Star City streets via the rail trail.
Don
*From:*Frank Gmeindl [mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net] *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:50 AM *To:* Chet Parsons *Cc:* Don Spencer; Bicycle Board *Subject:* Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run
Thanks, Chet. I had already been there before I replied to Don. Don's message seems to indicate that there's more detail than one finds in the 2030 Transportation Plan to which you refer. Perhaps he just meant that there are more options than we're considering.
In the 2030 plan, a table of non-motorized projects, Table 30 begins on page 111. One project there #8 is, "Include bike-ped facilities in West Run road corridor". The descriptive text below the table says, "This project will ensure that bicycles and pedestrians are accommodated in the West Run Road transportation corridor and an additional connection to the Mon River Trail is provided. As part of the recommended roadway projects a bike trail is proposed along one side of the road." Aside from the bike trail along one side of the road, it doesn't say what those "facilities" might be. A map, Figure 25 on page 98 shows West Run but adds no useful info.
Three other projects that Don might be thinking of are #2, #3 and #4. Project #2 is relevant because it connects the eastern terminus of West Run Rd. near I-68 with the Decker Creek Trail through the Dug Hill Rd. corridor. I raised that in the dialog below. The other projects, as well as the remainder of #2 may be outside the scope of the West Run project. The remainder of #2 goes out to Cheat Lake along 857, #3 goes out Old Cheat Rd. and #4 connects Tyrone Rd. to the Decker Creek Trail through Brookhaven Rd. and Dug Hill Rd. They all involve adding a "bike lane/paved shoulder". Don are these what you meant?
Chet, thanks for prompting me to revisit the 2030 transportation plan. I had forgot much of it. While looking for the pages you indicated, I re-read the motorized plan for West Run. Page 109 contains a nice arial view of the plan to widen West Run, add a 3rd lane from Riddle to Van Voorhis and a description turn lanes to be added at Van Voohis, Riddle, Stewartstown and 119. It will be interesting to compare what DOH now has in mind with that which is currently in the 2030 plan.
Also, I see that item 22 on page 101 is a 3-lane corridor from the Research Park to West Run. That's a pretty big bike path:)
I highly recommend that anyone who worked on the BB Bike Route map study the map, Figure 25 on page 98 of section 9 of the 2030 plan, http://www.plantogether.org/plan.html . It verifies what we did but might give us some other ideas.
Frank
On Jan 17, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Chet Parsons wrote:
I can jump in here - thanks for the idea Don.
I think Don is referring to the nonmotorized segment of the 2030 Plan. If you go to that location on the MPO website you can look at Chapter Nine, the Recommended Plan (http://www.plantogether.org/plan.html). If you go to Page 112 you'll see the nonmotorized Plan. Most of the items referenced are footnoted with a number in a circle - these are highway projects that have a nonmotorized component. You can look back at Table 29 on page 101 for a listing of all the highway projects and their associated costs. Note item 22 there.
Table 30 shows the nonmotorized projects - of note are item 8 for West Run Road (note this plan was done before all the stuff got developed on West Run between Stewartstown and 119.
Chet
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 9:18 AM, Frank Gmeindl <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net> wrote:
Don,
What is the MPO bicycle route plan? Can you point me to it? I did a cursory search of the MPO website and didn't find it. I did find a "screening addendum" (attached) that contains a map showing a couple options around Dug Hill Rd. Is that it?
Frank
On Jan 16, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Don Spencer wrote:
Frank -- On the West Run related issues, I urge you to take a look at the MPO bicycle route plan. There is quite a few recommendations in that plan for establishing a "ring route" from the rail trail in Sabraton to Easton Hill and then down West Run to the River. The information does not address the width issues per se, but I think that referencing the Plan in our discussions with the MPO and DOH is to our advantage.
Don
*From:*bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] *On Behalf Of *Gunnar Shogren *Sent:* Thursday, January 13, 2011 12:47 PM *To:* Frank Gmeindl *Cc:* Bicycle Board *Subject:* Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 12:40 PM, Frank Gmeindl <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net> wrote:
I think we have two concepts. One, is to modify West Run Road to
make it more bike friendly and Two is a segregated path.
Modify West Run Rd. For many years before the District, I rode West Run Rd. several
times/week around 5 pm., always from east to west. See map at http://tinyurl.com/46ofgs3 It was fine except that occasionally, I'd be head-on with some junior doctor zipping along in his BMW or S-2000 and we'd both be eyeing the fence posts, mailboxes and culverts for room to squeeze by. Improving sight-lines is imperative; widening would be nice; shared lane markings and Bicycles May Use Full Lane signs, or at least share the road signs would help. Moving, leveling and realigning the intersection with 119 is also imperative.
I used to ride the old bike route over White Avenue to Dug Hill Rd,
Pierpont Rd., across 857, down Old Cheat Rd. to Easton then along 119 to West Run as shown on the map at http://tinyurl.com/46ofgs3. Except for the little stretches of 857 and 119, there wasn't much traffic but it's quite hilly and would probably discourage novices. However, once West Run is improved, it would be a suitable extension of the bike route with appropriate mapping to indicate the hills and to warn of the high traffic zones on 857 and 119.
Segregated Path The best segregated path option would be as I think Chet is
suggesting, basically between West Run Rd. and West Run creek. Heck, let's propose to go all the way to the Mon River trail in the long run.
Coming from the District out to Easton, you can cross Easton Hill Rd.
and continue out West Run Rd. where it dead-ends at I-68. Crossing the intersection by Easton School will be a challenge. Before I-68, West Run Rd. used to continue up the hill to Pierpont Rd. (Who hasn't ridden through the West Run culverts under I-68? Perhaps you missed the BB initiation ceremony;)
Don Spencer has told me that there has been some discussion of
running a trail along the west side of I-68 over to Sabraton. We should explore this. Then, we could connect with the Decker Creek trail and have a bicycle beltway around the City:) My concern remains that if we put all our energy into projects like this, it will eventually become impossible to ride your bike from the trail to any practical destination because we were diverted from reclaiming the streets that were ours to being with.
At Easton, going up Easton Hill and across the Mileground should be
an option that could be handled by a bicycle climbing lane. If they can crane a shopping center and housing development on the side of that hill and add a full-width travel lane and roundabouts to the Mileground, they can add 8 feet to Easton Hill for a bicycle climbing lane! I still occasionally ride up Easton Hill. It's not pleasant and if you don't take the lane, you'll get squeezed into the guard rail. It is nearly impossible to walk up or down there though because there is absolutely no shoulder.
Untrue! We've seen our buddy NickH going up it a few times. Did not seem like it would be a pleasant experience *at* *all*. But maybe Nick can chime in here.
The hundreds of people living in that valley now would be stranded
and starve to death when the gasoline runs out.
And this would be a bad thing?
Frank
On Jan 13, 2011, at 11:18 AM, Gunnar Shogren wrote:
Wider road and signage. I've biked on it off and on throughout the years, problem is that it just doesn't lead anywhere easily, there's a big hill off it as soon as you go toward town, or even go away from town. Sure not many folks use it now, but perhaps they would if even to go from Apt complex to complex, to play XBox or Magic: The Gathering. Widen that puppy and put some signs up. Nice wide shoulder just to ease the minds of less experienced cyclists as well.
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Chet Parsons <chetparsons@gmail.com
mailto:chetparsons@gmail.com> wrote:
I think Bill Austin already has this stuff in his head, but here's
my two
cents. The section from Van Voorhis to Stewartstown can be used in
combination of
on-street markings and using the floodplain owned by WVU (basically
from the
dairy farm to Pineview). Once you get to Stewartstown, Ryan is right. You'll need to cut down behind Copper Beech and up between it and
the stuff
up on the backside of the Mileground. Follow that route until you
get to
Easton School, which will be closed soon anyway. Then tie in to
whatever
new development is getting ready to go in along 857 out to I-68.
If you
haven't noticed, the DOH has been clearing and widening 857 for about
4
months now and my bet is that there will be a new development with an additional access point by summer. Another option, but will probably be a more expensive easement, is
to create
a couple switchbacks up the farm on the opposite side of the hill
as West
Run Apartments and then run a path through the apartment complex
and out to
119/857. Chet
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Ryan Post <rpostwvu@gmail.com
mailto:rpostwvu@gmail.com> wrote:
West Run, from Stewartstown to 119 (where all the houses are), is
twisty,
narrow and hilly.
Given those conditions, it can never be bike friendly. Road needs
widened
and/or straightened significantly. Or create a separate bike/walk
path. I
doubt many would walk however, since there's very little within ½
mile.
It's a no-man's land of bad planning and shouldn't have been Zoned
on w/o
correcting the road first, IMO.
From: bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org
mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] On
Behalf Of Frank Gmeindl Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 7:36 AM To: Bicycle Board Subject: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run
Bicycle Board Members,
Heads up. What are your ideas for making West Run more bicycle
friendly?
I don't know what DOH is planning for West Run yet. I'll keep you
posted.
Frank
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Bill Austin" <baustin@moncpc.org mailto:baustin@moncpc.org>
Date: January 11, 2011 4:30:44 PM EST
To: "'Frank Gmeindl'" <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net
mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net>
Subject: Work on West Run
Frank,
DOH has a project to improve West Run. They would like to work
with you
and the Board on the proper way to accommodate cyclists. I would
appreciate
discussing the matter with you prior to the CAC Meeting Thursday.
Also, they
let me know they identified five grates along Mon Boulevard that
they will
be replacing.
Thanks,
Bill Austin, AICP
Executive Director
Morgantown Monongalia MPO
82 Hart Field Road Ste. 105
Morgantown, WVA 26505
304-291-9571
304-692-7225 Mobile
"Nobody can go back and make a new beginning, but anyone can start
today
and make a new ending."-Maria Robinson
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org mailto:Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org mailto:Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org mailto:Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
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Bicycle Board Members,
I've run out of time to work on this and realize that I'm not finished but I want to get something to Bill Austin Wednesday morning. Please read the following and tell me if you can live with it.
Bill,
Thank you for inviting the Morgantown Bicycle Board's input on the proposed West Run Road improvement. If I understand correctly, the proposed improvement involves upgrading West Run Road travel lanes to 11-feet and adding up to 2-foot paved shoulders. Also, the shoulders may be wider on climbing sections and inside curves and narrower on descending sections and on the outside of curves.
The proposed 11-foot lane width plus 2-foot paved shoulder provides inadequate special accommodation for bicyclists and accommodates bicyclists only as ordinary drivers of vehicles. To accommodate bicyclists, the lane width should be 14-feet or the shoulder should be a minimum of 4-feet, preferably 5-feet and striped as a bike lane.
At a minimum, West Run Road should have Share the Road signs (W11-1 sign and W16-1P placard) to alert motorists to bicyclists. Better would be shared lane markings (9C-9) and Bicycles May Use Full Lane signs (R4-11).
It is crucial that West Run improvements not force bicycles to the right of right turn lanes but rather encourage bicyclists to employ best vehicular practices at intersections. Bicycles should be treated as vehicles, not pedestrians.
In most cases, 11-feet is not wide enough for a shared lane, i.e a lane in which a motor vehicle and bicycle can travel safely side-by-sdide. A 2-foot shoulder is not adequate for bicycle operation.
Normally, bicyclists require 3-feet of roadway space for operation. Normally, 3-feet or more is minimum safe passing distance. Normally, 8-feet is minimum travel width for motor vehicles. Sum = 14-feet.
On 11-foot lanes with 2-foot paved shoulders, novice cyclists would probably try to ride on the shoulder, assuming that the shoulder would be maintained free of debris including snow and ice and be free of surface defects. After a few experiences of getting passed too closely, novice cyclists would probably abandon West Run Road. Experienced cyclists, if they felt they were visible, would take the lane and prevent being passed except when overtaking vehicles are narrow enough, passing speeds are slow enough and they can see far enough ahead to ensure no on-coming traffic. Then, they might move to the right and allow passing.
The 1999 AASHTO Guide for the Development of Bicycle Facilities is somewhat ambivalent about shared lanes but indicates that 12-feet is a minimum. The 2009 DRAFT AASHTO Guide for the Planning, Design, and Operation of Bicycle Facilities is more definitive. It states: "Lane widths of 13 feet (4.0 m) or less require most motor vehicles to be driven at least part way into the next lane to pass a bicyclist with an adequate and comfortable clearance (usually 3 ft [0.9 m] or more depending on the speed of the passing vehicle). Lane widths of 14 feet (4.3 m) or greater enable motorists to pass bicycles without encroaching into the adjacent lane." The draft guide recognizes that a wider lane may be required on steep grades and says, "Roadways with shared lanes narrower than 14 feet (4.3 m) may still be designated for bicycles with bicycle guide signs and/or shared lane markings..."
A 2-foot shoulder is not wide enough for safe bicycle operation. The 1994 AASHTO Policy on Geometric Design of Highways and Streets (Green Book) recognizes that bicycles require 3-feet of lateral operating space. The 1999 AASHTO guide says that paved shoulders should be at least 4-feet wide to accommodate bicycles. It suggests that 5-feet is preferred and wider may be required adjacent to high speed and high volume motor traffic. It does recognize that any shoulder is better than none at all. The West Run shoulder would have to be 4-feet or more to be useful.
Most motorists will not run over a bicyclist if they can see the bicyclist and have sufficient time to react. The first priority for the DOH then, should be to ensure that bicyclists are visible in the West Run corridor. Signage will help alert motorists to bicyclist presence. DOH must ensure that sight lines are long enough and speeds are low enough to allow all motorists to see bicyclists or slow-moving vehicles or stopped vehicles, to have sufficient time to decide what to do and to take the correct action.
Most motorists will pass the bicyclist if and when they can. Almost no motorists obey the law that prohibits crossing the center line in such cases. Many motorists will cross the center line even when there is on-coming traffic or when they cannot see far enough up the road to ensure that there is no on-coming traffic such as when approaching a blind curve or blind hill crest.
If the cyclist determines that moving to the right would provide sufficient space for the overtaking vehicle to pass him or her safely, the cyclist should move to the right. If the bicyclist judges that he or she cannot be passed safely, he or she must control the lane. How much space is sufficient depends on many factors. Some factors include lane width; whether the cyclist thinks an overtaking vehicle can see him or her; how fast the cyclist is going; how fast the overtaking vehicle is going; whether the cyclist is climbing, descending or riding on level road; how far ahead the cyclist can see; whether any traffic is coming; whether there's a paved shoulder; shoulder width; shoulder condition; what's adjacent to the roadway. If the cyclist determines that moving to the right will not provide sufficient space for the motorist to pass safely, the cyclist should take a position in the lane that prevents the motorist from passing.
Beyond improving West Run Rd., the Bicycle Board recommends that the MPO and WVDOH reconsider the West Run alternatives described in the current 2009 Transportation plan. These include a separate bike path through the West Run valley, an extension of the Poultry Farm Road to West Run Rd. and other alternatives connecting to West Run.
I look forward to the opportunity to cruise West Run with you and Perry Keller for on-site discussion. On Jan 18, 2011, at 6:33 AM, Chet Parsons wrote:
I didn't think of it before, but now that West Run zoning has passed,WVDOH needs to plan according to it. I have no idea if that supports our efforts or not.
On Jan 17, 2011 9:35 PM, "Jonathan Rosenbaum" freesource@cheat.org wrote:
I have been riding West Run for years now for a variety of reasons, even before it was over-developed. There is a posted speed limit of 25 miles an hour, but that is never enforced. In general, most speeding occurs when people are using the road as a short-cut during rush hour. However, the state should explore installing an automated camera to snap photos of license plates of speeders, probably could help offset the cost of making improvements.
One of the most dangerous parts of the road between Van Voorhis and Stewartstown road is the intersection with Riddle. If you are going straight down West Run with your bicycle you definitely don't want to stay close to the curb, or you risk getting hooked by people waiting on Riddle to turn onto West Run. The visuals at the intersection are bad, and drivers misjudge bicyclists speed.
I've enjoyed bicycling on this road. The worst thing I even witnessed was when a large truck had just passed me, and a motorcyclist had just stopped about 50 feet ahead to take a left turn into a new apartment complex, he didn't have a blinker and was using hand signals. Fortunately the truck driver braked fast; the motocyclist probably never realized that he had almost became road kill.
It definitely needs sidewalks. I would rather see sidewalks built then have a special berm installed for cyclists.
-Jonathan
On 1/17/2011 12:21 PM, Don Spencer wrote:
Frank -- From my perspective you and Chet are on target. A road widening along West Run Road might suffice. It would seem that 11 feet might suffice. I fear, however, that wide lanes without markings would produce high rates of speed in places like West Run. If there could be 13 foot motor vehicle lanes, then it might be safer to have bike lanes (with intersection signage) to accommodate even lesser trained bicycle riders.
If the bicycle access can continue from West Run Road to the River, part of the problems for bicycles on Van Voorhis can be avoided. To travel from West Run Road, cyclists (and pedestrians) could have a relatively flat trail access to and from the downtown and downtown campuses and Star City streets via the rail trail.
Don
*From:*Frank Gmeindl [mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net] *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:50 AM *To:* Chet Parsons *Cc:* Don Spencer; Bicycle Board *Subject:* Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run
Thanks, Chet. I had already been there before I replied to Don. Don's message seems to indicate that there's more detail than one finds in the 2030 Transportation Plan to which you refer. Perhaps he just meant that there are more options than we're considering.
In the 2030 plan, a table of non-motorized projects, Table 30 begins on page 111. One project there #8 is, "Include bike-ped facilities in West Run road corridor". The descriptive text below the table says, "This project will ensure that bicycles and pedestrians are accommodated in the West Run Road transportation corridor and an additional connection to the Mon River Trail is provided. As part of the recommended roadway projects a bike trail is proposed along one side of the road." Aside from the bike trail along one side of the road, it doesn't say what those "facilities" might be. A map, Figure 25 on page 98 shows West Run but adds no useful info.
Three other projects that Don might be thinking of are #2, #3 and #4. Project #2 is relevant because it connects the eastern terminus of West Run Rd. near I-68 with the Decker Creek Trail through the Dug Hill Rd. corridor. I raised that in the dialog below. The other projects, as well as the remainder of #2 may be outside the scope of the West Run project. The remainder of #2 goes out to Cheat Lake along 857, #3 goes out Old Cheat Rd. and #4 connects Tyrone Rd. to the Decker Creek Trail through Brookhaven Rd. and Dug Hill Rd. They all involve adding a "bike lane/paved shoulder". Don are these what you meant?
Chet, thanks for prompting me to revisit the 2030 transportation plan. I had forgot much of it. While looking for the pages you indicated, I re-read the motorized plan for West Run. Page 109 contains a nice arial view of the plan to widen West Run, add a 3rd lane from Riddle to Van Voorhis and a description turn lanes to be added at Van Voohis, Riddle, Stewartstown and 119. It will be interesting to compare what DOH now has in mind with that which is currently in the 2030 plan.
Also, I see that item 22 on page 101 is a 3-lane corridor from the Research Park to West Run. That's a pretty big bike path:)
I highly recommend that anyone who worked on the BB Bike Route map study the map, Figure 25 on page 98 of section 9 of the 2030 plan, http://www.plantogether.org/plan.html . It verifies what we did but might give us some other ideas.
Frank
On Jan 17, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Chet Parsons wrote:
I can jump in here - thanks for the idea Don.
I think Don is referring to the nonmotorized segment of the 2030 Plan. If you go to that location on the MPO website you can look at Chapter Nine, the Recommended Plan (http://www.plantogether.org/plan.html). If you go to Page 112 you'll see the nonmotorized Plan. Most of the items referenced are footnoted with a number in a circle - these are highway projects that have a nonmotorized component. You can look back at Table 29 on page 101 for a listing of all the highway projects and their associated costs. Note item 22 there.
Table 30 shows the nonmotorized projects - of note are item 8 for West Run Road (note this plan was done before all the stuff got developed on West Run between Stewartstown and 119.
Chet
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 9:18 AM, Frank Gmeindl <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net> wrote:
Don,
What is the MPO bicycle route plan? Can you point me to it? I did a cursory search of the MPO website and didn't find it. I did find a "screening addendum" (attached) that contains a map showing a couple options around Dug Hill Rd. Is that it?
Frank
On Jan 16, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Don Spencer wrote:
Frank -- On the West Run related issues, I urge you to take a look at the MPO bicycle route plan. There is quite a few recommendations in that plan for establishing a "ring route" from the rail trail in Sabraton to Easton Hill and then down West Run to the River. The information does not address the width issues per se, but I think that referencing the Plan in our discussions with the MPO and DOH is to our advantage.
Don
*From:*bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] *On Behalf Of *Gunnar Shogren *Sent:* Thursday, January 13, 2011 12:47 PM *To:* Frank Gmeindl *Cc:* Bicycle Board *Subject:* Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 12:40 PM, Frank Gmeindl <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net> wrote:
I think we have two concepts. One, is to modify West Run Road to
make it more bike friendly and Two is a segregated path.
Modify West Run Rd. For many years before the District, I rode West Run Rd. several
times/week around 5 pm., always from east to west. See map at http://tinyurl.com/46ofgs3 It was fine except that occasionally, I'd be head-on with some junior doctor zipping along in his BMW or S-2000 and we'd both be eyeing the fence posts, mailboxes and culverts for room to squeeze by. Improving sight-lines is imperative; widening would be nice; shared lane markings and Bicycles May Use Full Lane signs, or at least share the road signs would help. Moving, leveling and realigning the intersection with 119 is also imperative.
I used to ride the old bike route over White Avenue to Dug Hill Rd,
Pierpont Rd., across 857, down Old Cheat Rd. to Easton then along 119 to West Run as shown on the map at http://tinyurl.com/46ofgs3. Except for the little stretches of 857 and 119, there wasn't much traffic but it's quite hilly and would probably discourage novices. However, once West Run is improved, it would be a suitable extension of the bike route with appropriate mapping to indicate the hills and to warn of the high traffic zones on 857 and 119.
Segregated Path The best segregated path option would be as I think Chet is
suggesting, basically between West Run Rd. and West Run creek. Heck, let's propose to go all the way to the Mon River trail in the long run.
Coming from the District out to Easton, you can cross Easton Hill Rd.
and continue out West Run Rd. where it dead-ends at I-68. Crossing the intersection by Easton School will be a challenge. Before I-68, West Run Rd. used to continue up the hill to Pierpont Rd. (Who hasn't ridden through the West Run culverts under I-68? Perhaps you missed the BB initiation ceremony;)
Don Spencer has told me that there has been some discussion of
running a trail along the west side of I-68 over to Sabraton. We should explore this. Then, we could connect with the Decker Creek trail and have a bicycle beltway around the City:) My concern remains that if we put all our energy into projects like this, it will eventually become impossible to ride your bike from the trail to any practical destination because we were diverted from reclaiming the streets that were ours to being with.
At Easton, going up Easton Hill and across the Mileground should be
an option that could be handled by a bicycle climbing lane. If they can crane a shopping center and housing development on the side of that hill and add a full-width travel lane and roundabouts to the Mileground, they can add 8 feet to Easton Hill for a bicycle climbing lane! I still occasionally ride up Easton Hill. It's not pleasant and if you don't take the lane, you'll get squeezed into the guard rail. It is nearly impossible to walk up or down there though because there is absolutely no shoulder.
Untrue! We've seen our buddy NickH going up it a few times. Did not seem like it would be a pleasant experience *at* *all*. But maybe Nick can chime in here.
The hundreds of people living in that valley now would be stranded
and starve to death when the gasoline runs out.
And this would be a bad thing?
Frank
On Jan 13, 2011, at 11:18 AM, Gunnar Shogren wrote:
Wider road and signage. I've biked on it off and on throughout the years, problem is that it just doesn't lead anywhere easily, there's a big hill off it as soon as you go toward town, or even go away from town. Sure not many folks use it now, but perhaps they would if even to go from Apt complex to complex, to play XBox or Magic: The Gathering. Widen that puppy and put some signs up. Nice wide shoulder just to ease the minds of less experienced cyclists as well.
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Chet Parsons <chetparsons@gmail.com
mailto:chetparsons@gmail.com> wrote:
I think Bill Austin already has this stuff in his head, but here's
my two
cents. The section from Van Voorhis to Stewartstown can be used in
combination of
on-street markings and using the floodplain owned by WVU (basically
from the
dairy farm to Pineview). Once you get to Stewartstown, Ryan is right. You'll need to cut down behind Copper Beech and up between it and
the stuff
up on the backside of the Mileground. Follow that route until you
get to
Easton School, which will be closed soon anyway. Then tie in to
whatever
new development is getting ready to go in along 857 out to I-68.
If you
haven't noticed, the DOH has been clearing and widening 857 for about 4 months now and my bet is that there will be a new development with an additional access point by summer. Another option, but will probably be a more expensive easement, is
to create
a couple switchbacks up the farm on the opposite side of the hill
as West
Run Apartments and then run a path through the apartment complex
and out to
119/857. Chet
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Ryan Post <rpostwvu@gmail.com
mailto:rpostwvu@gmail.com> wrote:
> > West Run, from Stewartstown to 119 (where all the houses are), is
twisty,
> narrow and hilly. > > > > Given those conditions, it can never be bike friendly. Road needs
widened
> and/or straightened significantly. Or create a separate bike/walk
path. I
> doubt many would walk however, since there's very little within ½
mile.
> > > > It's a no-man's land of bad planning and shouldn't have been Zoned
on w/o
> correcting the road first, IMO. > > > > From: bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org
mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] On
> Behalf Of Frank Gmeindl > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 7:36 AM > To: Bicycle Board > Subject: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run > > > > Bicycle Board Members, > > > > Heads up. What are your ideas for making West Run more bicycle
friendly?
> > > > I don't know what DOH is planning for West Run yet. I'll keep you
posted.
> > > > Frank > > > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: "Bill Austin" <baustin@moncpc.org mailto:baustin@moncpc.org> > > Date: January 11, 2011 4:30:44 PM EST > > To: "'Frank Gmeindl'" <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net
mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net>
> > Subject: Work on West Run > > Frank, > > > > DOH has a project to improve West Run. They would like to work
with you
> and the Board on the proper way to accommodate cyclists. I would
appreciate
> discussing the matter with you prior to the CAC Meeting Thursday.
Also, they
> let me know they identified five grates along Mon Boulevard that
they will
> be replacing. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill Austin, AICP > > Executive Director > > Morgantown Monongalia MPO > > 82 Hart Field Road Ste. 105 > > Morgantown, WVA 26505 > > 304-291-9571 > > 304-692-7225 Mobile > > > > "Nobody can go back and make a new beginning, but anyone can start
today
> and make a new ending."-Maria Robinson > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikeboard mailing list > Bikeboard@cheat.org mailto:Bikeboard@cheat.org > http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
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Does anybody know if and how the recently enacted West Run zoning would affect West Run Road, the separate shared use path or any of the other ideas we discussed?
On Jan 18, 2011, at 6:33 AM, Chet Parsons wrote:
I didn't think of it before, but now that West Run zoning has passed,WVDOH needs to plan according to it. I have no idea if that supports our efforts or not.
On Jan 17, 2011 9:35 PM, "Jonathan Rosenbaum" freesource@cheat.org wrote:
I have been riding West Run for years now for a variety of reasons, even before it was over-developed. There is a posted speed limit of 25 miles an hour, but that is never enforced. In general, most speeding occurs when people are using the road as a short-cut during rush hour. However, the state should explore installing an automated camera to snap photos of license plates of speeders, probably could help offset the cost of making improvements.
One of the most dangerous parts of the road between Van Voorhis and Stewartstown road is the intersection with Riddle. If you are going straight down West Run with your bicycle you definitely don't want to stay close to the curb, or you risk getting hooked by people waiting on Riddle to turn onto West Run. The visuals at the intersection are bad, and drivers misjudge bicyclists speed.
I've enjoyed bicycling on this road. The worst thing I even witnessed was when a large truck had just passed me, and a motorcyclist had just stopped about 50 feet ahead to take a left turn into a new apartment complex, he didn't have a blinker and was using hand signals. Fortunately the truck driver braked fast; the motocyclist probably never realized that he had almost became road kill.
It definitely needs sidewalks. I would rather see sidewalks built then have a special berm installed for cyclists.
-Jonathan
On 1/17/2011 12:21 PM, Don Spencer wrote:
Frank -- From my perspective you and Chet are on target. A road widening along West Run Road might suffice. It would seem that 11 feet might suffice. I fear, however, that wide lanes without markings would produce high rates of speed in places like West Run. If there could be 13 foot motor vehicle lanes, then it might be safer to have bike lanes (with intersection signage) to accommodate even lesser trained bicycle riders.
If the bicycle access can continue from West Run Road to the River, part of the problems for bicycles on Van Voorhis can be avoided. To travel from West Run Road, cyclists (and pedestrians) could have a relatively flat trail access to and from the downtown and downtown campuses and Star City streets via the rail trail.
Don
*From:*Frank Gmeindl [mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net] *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:50 AM *To:* Chet Parsons *Cc:* Don Spencer; Bicycle Board *Subject:* Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run
Thanks, Chet. I had already been there before I replied to Don. Don's message seems to indicate that there's more detail than one finds in the 2030 Transportation Plan to which you refer. Perhaps he just meant that there are more options than we're considering.
In the 2030 plan, a table of non-motorized projects, Table 30 begins on page 111. One project there #8 is, "Include bike-ped facilities in West Run road corridor". The descriptive text below the table says, "This project will ensure that bicycles and pedestrians are accommodated in the West Run Road transportation corridor and an additional connection to the Mon River Trail is provided. As part of the recommended roadway projects a bike trail is proposed along one side of the road." Aside from the bike trail along one side of the road, it doesn't say what those "facilities" might be. A map, Figure 25 on page 98 shows West Run but adds no useful info.
Three other projects that Don might be thinking of are #2, #3 and #4. Project #2 is relevant because it connects the eastern terminus of West Run Rd. near I-68 with the Decker Creek Trail through the Dug Hill Rd. corridor. I raised that in the dialog below. The other projects, as well as the remainder of #2 may be outside the scope of the West Run project. The remainder of #2 goes out to Cheat Lake along 857, #3 goes out Old Cheat Rd. and #4 connects Tyrone Rd. to the Decker Creek Trail through Brookhaven Rd. and Dug Hill Rd. They all involve adding a "bike lane/paved shoulder". Don are these what you meant?
Chet, thanks for prompting me to revisit the 2030 transportation plan. I had forgot much of it. While looking for the pages you indicated, I re-read the motorized plan for West Run. Page 109 contains a nice arial view of the plan to widen West Run, add a 3rd lane from Riddle to Van Voorhis and a description turn lanes to be added at Van Voohis, Riddle, Stewartstown and 119. It will be interesting to compare what DOH now has in mind with that which is currently in the 2030 plan.
Also, I see that item 22 on page 101 is a 3-lane corridor from the Research Park to West Run. That's a pretty big bike path:)
I highly recommend that anyone who worked on the BB Bike Route map study the map, Figure 25 on page 98 of section 9 of the 2030 plan, http://www.plantogether.org/plan.html . It verifies what we did but might give us some other ideas.
Frank
On Jan 17, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Chet Parsons wrote:
I can jump in here - thanks for the idea Don.
I think Don is referring to the nonmotorized segment of the 2030 Plan. If you go to that location on the MPO website you can look at Chapter Nine, the Recommended Plan (http://www.plantogether.org/plan.html). If you go to Page 112 you'll see the nonmotorized Plan. Most of the items referenced are footnoted with a number in a circle - these are highway projects that have a nonmotorized component. You can look back at Table 29 on page 101 for a listing of all the highway projects and their associated costs. Note item 22 there.
Table 30 shows the nonmotorized projects - of note are item 8 for West Run Road (note this plan was done before all the stuff got developed on West Run between Stewartstown and 119.
Chet
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 9:18 AM, Frank Gmeindl <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net> wrote:
Don,
What is the MPO bicycle route plan? Can you point me to it? I did a cursory search of the MPO website and didn't find it. I did find a "screening addendum" (attached) that contains a map showing a couple options around Dug Hill Rd. Is that it?
Frank
On Jan 16, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Don Spencer wrote:
Frank -- On the West Run related issues, I urge you to take a look at the MPO bicycle route plan. There is quite a few recommendations in that plan for establishing a "ring route" from the rail trail in Sabraton to Easton Hill and then down West Run to the River. The information does not address the width issues per se, but I think that referencing the Plan in our discussions with the MPO and DOH is to our advantage.
Don
*From:*bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] *On Behalf Of *Gunnar Shogren *Sent:* Thursday, January 13, 2011 12:47 PM *To:* Frank Gmeindl *Cc:* Bicycle Board *Subject:* Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 12:40 PM, Frank Gmeindl <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net> wrote:
I think we have two concepts. One, is to modify West Run Road to
make it more bike friendly and Two is a segregated path.
Modify West Run Rd. For many years before the District, I rode West Run Rd. several
times/week around 5 pm., always from east to west. See map at http://tinyurl.com/46ofgs3 It was fine except that occasionally, I'd be head-on with some junior doctor zipping along in his BMW or S-2000 and we'd both be eyeing the fence posts, mailboxes and culverts for room to squeeze by. Improving sight-lines is imperative; widening would be nice; shared lane markings and Bicycles May Use Full Lane signs, or at least share the road signs would help. Moving, leveling and realigning the intersection with 119 is also imperative.
I used to ride the old bike route over White Avenue to Dug Hill Rd,
Pierpont Rd., across 857, down Old Cheat Rd. to Easton then along 119 to West Run as shown on the map at http://tinyurl.com/46ofgs3. Except for the little stretches of 857 and 119, there wasn't much traffic but it's quite hilly and would probably discourage novices. However, once West Run is improved, it would be a suitable extension of the bike route with appropriate mapping to indicate the hills and to warn of the high traffic zones on 857 and 119.
Segregated Path The best segregated path option would be as I think Chet is
suggesting, basically between West Run Rd. and West Run creek. Heck, let's propose to go all the way to the Mon River trail in the long run.
Coming from the District out to Easton, you can cross Easton Hill Rd.
and continue out West Run Rd. where it dead-ends at I-68. Crossing the intersection by Easton School will be a challenge. Before I-68, West Run Rd. used to continue up the hill to Pierpont Rd. (Who hasn't ridden through the West Run culverts under I-68? Perhaps you missed the BB initiation ceremony;)
Don Spencer has told me that there has been some discussion of
running a trail along the west side of I-68 over to Sabraton. We should explore this. Then, we could connect with the Decker Creek trail and have a bicycle beltway around the City:) My concern remains that if we put all our energy into projects like this, it will eventually become impossible to ride your bike from the trail to any practical destination because we were diverted from reclaiming the streets that were ours to being with.
At Easton, going up Easton Hill and across the Mileground should be
an option that could be handled by a bicycle climbing lane. If they can crane a shopping center and housing development on the side of that hill and add a full-width travel lane and roundabouts to the Mileground, they can add 8 feet to Easton Hill for a bicycle climbing lane! I still occasionally ride up Easton Hill. It's not pleasant and if you don't take the lane, you'll get squeezed into the guard rail. It is nearly impossible to walk up or down there though because there is absolutely no shoulder.
Untrue! We've seen our buddy NickH going up it a few times. Did not seem like it would be a pleasant experience *at* *all*. But maybe Nick can chime in here.
The hundreds of people living in that valley now would be stranded
and starve to death when the gasoline runs out.
And this would be a bad thing?
Frank
On Jan 13, 2011, at 11:18 AM, Gunnar Shogren wrote:
Wider road and signage. I've biked on it off and on throughout the years, problem is that it just doesn't lead anywhere easily, there's a big hill off it as soon as you go toward town, or even go away from town. Sure not many folks use it now, but perhaps they would if even to go from Apt complex to complex, to play XBox or Magic: The Gathering. Widen that puppy and put some signs up. Nice wide shoulder just to ease the minds of less experienced cyclists as well.
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Chet Parsons <chetparsons@gmail.com
mailto:chetparsons@gmail.com> wrote:
I think Bill Austin already has this stuff in his head, but here's
my two
cents. The section from Van Voorhis to Stewartstown can be used in
combination of
on-street markings and using the floodplain owned by WVU (basically
from the
dairy farm to Pineview). Once you get to Stewartstown, Ryan is right. You'll need to cut down behind Copper Beech and up between it and
the stuff
up on the backside of the Mileground. Follow that route until you
get to
Easton School, which will be closed soon anyway. Then tie in to
whatever
new development is getting ready to go in along 857 out to I-68.
If you
haven't noticed, the DOH has been clearing and widening 857 for about 4 months now and my bet is that there will be a new development with an additional access point by summer. Another option, but will probably be a more expensive easement, is
to create
a couple switchbacks up the farm on the opposite side of the hill
as West
Run Apartments and then run a path through the apartment complex
and out to
119/857. Chet
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Ryan Post <rpostwvu@gmail.com
mailto:rpostwvu@gmail.com> wrote:
> > West Run, from Stewartstown to 119 (where all the houses are), is
twisty,
> narrow and hilly. > > > > Given those conditions, it can never be bike friendly. Road needs
widened
> and/or straightened significantly. Or create a separate bike/walk
path. I
> doubt many would walk however, since there's very little within ½
mile.
> > > > It's a no-man's land of bad planning and shouldn't have been Zoned
on w/o
> correcting the road first, IMO. > > > > From: bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org
mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] On
> Behalf Of Frank Gmeindl > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 7:36 AM > To: Bicycle Board > Subject: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run > > > > Bicycle Board Members, > > > > Heads up. What are your ideas for making West Run more bicycle
friendly?
> > > > I don't know what DOH is planning for West Run yet. I'll keep you
posted.
> > > > Frank > > > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: "Bill Austin" <baustin@moncpc.org mailto:baustin@moncpc.org> > > Date: January 11, 2011 4:30:44 PM EST > > To: "'Frank Gmeindl'" <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net
mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net>
> > Subject: Work on West Run > > Frank, > > > > DOH has a project to improve West Run. They would like to work
with you
> and the Board on the proper way to accommodate cyclists. I would
appreciate
> discussing the matter with you prior to the CAC Meeting Thursday.
Also, they
> let me know they identified five grates along Mon Boulevard that
they will
> be replacing. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill Austin, AICP > > Executive Director > > Morgantown Monongalia MPO > > 82 Hart Field Road Ste. 105 > > Morgantown, WVA 26505 > > 304-291-9571 > > 304-692-7225 Mobile > > > > "Nobody can go back and make a new beginning, but anyone can start
today
> and make a new ending."-Maria Robinson > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikeboard mailing list > Bikeboard@cheat.org mailto:Bikeboard@cheat.org > http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
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On 1/19/2011 8:28 AM, Frank Gmeindl wrote:
Does anybody know if and how the recently enacted West Run zoning would affect West Run Road, the separate shared use path or any of the other ideas we discussed?
What passed recently was a zoning ordinance http://www.moncpc.org/Ordinances/Zoning/ .
I would direct questions to Rich Wood, Planner, and Bader Giggenbach, President of the County Planning Commission because they are the definitive experts about this subject.
This is good reading: http://www.moncpc.org/Ordinances/Zoning/WestRun/2600RoadsandRightsofWay08-10...
-Jonathan
On Jan 18, 2011, at 6:33 AM, Chet Parsons wrote:
I didn't think of it before, but now that West Run zoning has passed,WVDOH needs to plan according to it. I have no idea if that supports our efforts or not.
On Jan 17, 2011 9:35 PM, "Jonathan Rosenbaum" <freesource@cheat.org mailto:freesource@cheat.org> wrote:
I have been riding West Run for years now for a variety of reasons,
even
before it was over-developed. There is a posted speed limit of 25
miles
an hour, but that is never enforced. In general, most speeding occurs when people are using the road as a short-cut during rush hour. However, the state should explore installing an automated camera to
snap
photos of license plates of speeders, probably could help offset the cost of making improvements.
One of the most dangerous parts of the road between Van Voorhis and Stewartstown road is the intersection with Riddle. If you are going straight down West Run with your bicycle you definitely don't want to stay close to the curb, or you risk getting hooked by people
waiting on
Riddle to turn onto West Run. The visuals at the intersection are bad, and drivers misjudge bicyclists speed.
I've enjoyed bicycling on this road. The worst thing I even witnessed was when a large truck had just passed me, and a motorcyclist had just stopped about 50 feet ahead to take a left turn into a new apartment complex, he didn't have a blinker and was using hand signals. Fortunately the truck driver braked fast; the motocyclist probably
never
realized that he had almost became road kill.
It definitely needs sidewalks. I would rather see sidewalks built then have a special berm installed for cyclists.
-Jonathan
On 1/17/2011 12:21 PM, Don Spencer wrote:
Frank -- From my perspective you and Chet are on target. A road widening along West Run Road might suffice. It would seem that 11
feet
might suffice. I fear, however, that wide lanes without markings
would
produce high rates of speed in places like West Run. If there
could be
13 foot motor vehicle lanes, then it might be safer to have bike
lanes
(with intersection signage) to accommodate even lesser trained
bicycle
riders.
If the bicycle access can continue from West Run Road to the River, part of the problems for bicycles on Van Voorhis can be avoided. To travel from West Run Road, cyclists (and pedestrians) could have a relatively flat trail access to and from the downtown and downtown campuses and Star City streets via the rail trail.
Don
*From:*Frank Gmeindl [mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net
mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net]
*Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:50 AM *To:* Chet Parsons *Cc:* Don Spencer; Bicycle Board *Subject:* Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run
Thanks, Chet. I had already been there before I replied to Don. Don's message seems to indicate that there's more detail than one finds in the 2030 Transportation Plan to which you refer. Perhaps he just meant that there are more options than we're considering.
In the 2030 plan, a table of non-motorized projects, Table 30 begins on page 111. One project there #8 is, "Include bike-ped facilities in West Run road corridor". The descriptive text below the table says, "This project will ensure that bicycles and pedestrians are accommodated in the West Run Road transportation corridor and an additional connection to the Mon River Trail is provided. As part of the recommended roadway projects a bike trail is proposed along one side of the road." Aside from the bike trail along one side of the road, it doesn't say what those "facilities" might be. A map, Figure 25 on page 98 shows West Run but adds no useful info.
Three other projects that Don might be thinking of are #2, #3 and #4. Project #2 is relevant because it connects the eastern terminus of West Run Rd. near I-68 with the Decker Creek Trail through the Dug Hill Rd. corridor. I raised that in the dialog below. The other projects, as well as the remainder of #2 may be outside the scope of the West Run project. The remainder of #2 goes out to Cheat Lake along 857, #3 goes out Old Cheat Rd. and #4 connects Tyrone Rd. to
the
Decker Creek Trail through Brookhaven Rd. and Dug Hill Rd. They all involve adding a "bike lane/paved shoulder". Don are these what you meant?
Chet, thanks for prompting me to revisit the 2030 transportation
plan.
I had forgot much of it. While looking for the pages you indicated, I re-read the motorized plan for West Run. Page 109 contains a nice arial view of the plan to widen West Run, add a 3rd lane from Riddle to Van Voorhis and a description turn lanes to be added at Van
Voohis,
Riddle, Stewartstown and 119. It will be interesting to compare what DOH now has in mind with that which is currently in the 2030 plan.
Also, I see that item 22 on page 101 is a 3-lane corridor from the Research Park to West Run. That's a pretty big bike path:)
I highly recommend that anyone who worked on the BB Bike Route map study the map, Figure 25 on page 98 of section 9 of the 2030 plan, http://www.plantogether.org/plan.html . It verifies what we did but might give us some other ideas.
Frank
On Jan 17, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Chet Parsons wrote:
I can jump in here - thanks for the idea Don.
I think Don is referring to the nonmotorized segment of the 2030
Plan.
If you go to that location on the MPO website you can look at Chapter Nine, the Recommended Plan (http://www.plantogether.org/plan.html). If you go to Page 112 you'll see the nonmotorized Plan. Most of the items referenced are footnoted with a number in a circle - these are highway projects that have a nonmotorized component. You can look back at Table 29 on page 101 for a listing of all the highway
projects
and their associated costs. Note item 22 there.
Table 30 shows the nonmotorized projects - of note are item 8 for
West
Run Road (note this plan was done before all the stuff got developed on West Run between Stewartstown and 119.
Chet
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 9:18 AM, Frank Gmeindl <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net
<mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net>> wrote:
Don,
What is the MPO bicycle route plan? Can you point me to it? I did a cursory search of the MPO website and didn't find it. I did find a "screening addendum" (attached) that contains a map showing a couple options around Dug Hill Rd. Is that it?
Frank
On Jan 16, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Don Spencer wrote:
Frank -- On the West Run related issues, I urge you to take a look at the MPO bicycle route plan. There is quite a few recommendations in that plan for establishing a "ring route" from the rail trail in Sabraton to Easton Hill and then down West Run to the River. The information does not address the width issues per se, but I think
that
referencing the Plan in our discussions with the MPO and DOH is to
our
advantage.
Don
*From:*bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org
mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org
<mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org
mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org>
[mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org
mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org
<mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org
mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org>] *On Behalf Of *Gunnar Shogren
*Sent:* Thursday, January 13, 2011 12:47 PM *To:* Frank Gmeindl *Cc:* Bicycle Board *Subject:* Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 12:40 PM, Frank Gmeindl <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net
<mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net>> wrote:
I think we have two concepts. One, is to modify West Run Road to
make it more bike friendly and Two is a segregated path.
Modify West Run Rd. For many years before the District, I rode West Run Rd. several
times/week around 5 pm., always from east to west. See map at http://tinyurl.com/46ofgs3 It was fine except that occasionally, I'd be head-on with some junior doctor zipping along in his BMW or S-2000 and we'd both be eyeing the fence posts, mailboxes and culverts for room to squeeze by. Improving sight-lines is imperative; widening would be nice; shared lane markings and Bicycles May Use Full Lane signs, or at least share the road signs would help. Moving, leveling and realigning the intersection with 119 is also imperative.
I used to ride the old bike route over White Avenue to Dug Hill Rd,
Pierpont Rd., across 857, down Old Cheat Rd. to Easton then along 119 to West Run as shown on the map at http://tinyurl.com/46ofgs3. Except for the little stretches of 857 and 119, there wasn't much traffic
but
it's quite hilly and would probably discourage novices. However, once West Run is improved, it would be a suitable extension of the bike route with appropriate mapping to indicate the hills and to warn of the high traffic zones on 857 and 119.
Segregated Path The best segregated path option would be as I think Chet is
suggesting, basically between West Run Rd. and West Run creek. Heck, let's propose to go all the way to the Mon River trail in the long
run.
Coming from the District out to Easton, you can cross Easton
Hill Rd.
and continue out West Run Rd. where it dead-ends at I-68. Crossing the intersection by Easton School will be a challenge. Before I-68, West Run Rd. used to continue up the hill to Pierpont Rd. (Who hasn't ridden through the West Run culverts under I-68? Perhaps you missed the BB initiation ceremony;)
Don Spencer has told me that there has been some discussion of
running a trail along the west side of I-68 over to Sabraton. We should explore this. Then, we could connect with the Decker Creek trail and have a bicycle beltway around the City:) My concern remains that if we put all our energy into projects like this, it will eventually become impossible to ride your bike from the trail to any practical destination because we were diverted from reclaiming the streets that were ours to being with.
At Easton, going up Easton Hill and across the Mileground should be
an option that could be handled by a bicycle climbing lane. If they can crane a shopping center and housing development on the side of that hill and add a full-width travel lane and roundabouts to the Mileground, they can add 8 feet to Easton Hill for a bicycle climbing lane! I still occasionally ride up Easton Hill. It's not pleasant and if you don't take the lane, you'll get squeezed into the guard rail. It is nearly impossible to walk up or down there though because there is absolutely no shoulder.
Untrue! We've seen our buddy NickH going up it a few times. Did not seem like it would be a pleasant experience *at* *all*. But maybe Nick can chime in here.
The hundreds of people living in that valley now would be stranded
and starve to death when the gasoline runs out.
And this would be a bad thing?
Frank
On Jan 13, 2011, at 11:18 AM, Gunnar Shogren wrote:
Wider road and signage. I've biked on it off and on throughout the years, problem is
that it
just doesn't lead anywhere easily, there's a big hill off it as
soon
as you go toward town, or even go away from town. Sure not many folks use it now, but perhaps they would if even
to go
from Apt complex to complex, to play XBox or Magic: The Gathering. Widen that puppy and put some signs up. Nice wide shoulder just to ease the minds of less experienced cyclists as well.
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Chet Parsons
<chetparsons@gmail.com mailto:chetparsons@gmail.com
<mailto:chetparsons@gmail.com mailto:chetparsons@gmail.com>> wrote:
> I think Bill Austin already has this stuff in his head, but
here's
my two
> cents. > The section from Van Voorhis to Stewartstown can be used in
combination of
> on-street markings and using the floodplain owned by WVU
(basically
from the
> dairy farm to Pineview). Once you get to Stewartstown, Ryan is
right.
> You'll need to cut down behind Copper Beech and up between it and
the stuff
> up on the backside of the Mileground. Follow that route until you
get to
> Easton School, which will be closed soon anyway. Then tie in to
whatever
> new development is getting ready to go in along 857 out to I-68.
If you
> haven't noticed, the DOH has been clearing and widening 857
for about 4
> months now and my bet is that there will be a new development
with an
> additional access point by summer. > Another option, but will probably be a more expensive
easement, is
to create
> a couple switchbacks up the farm on the opposite side of the hill
as West
> Run Apartments and then run a path through the apartment complex
and out to
> 119/857. > Chet > > On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Ryan Post <rpostwvu@gmail.com
<mailto:rpostwvu@gmail.com mailto:rpostwvu@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >> West Run, from Stewartstown to 119 (where all the houses
are), is
twisty,
>> narrow and hilly. >> >> >> >> Given those conditions, it can never be bike friendly. Road
needs
widened
>> and/or straightened significantly. Or create a separate
bike/walk
path. I
>> doubt many would walk however, since there's very little
within ½
mile.
>> >> >> >> It's a no-man's land of bad planning and shouldn't have been
Zoned
on w/o
>> correcting the road first, IMO. >> >> >> >> From: bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org
mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org
<mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org
mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org>
[mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org
mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] On
>> Behalf Of Frank Gmeindl >> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 7:36 AM >> To: Bicycle Board >> Subject: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run >> >> >> >> Bicycle Board Members, >> >> >> >> Heads up. What are your ideas for making West Run more bicycle
friendly?
>> >> >> >> I don't know what DOH is planning for West Run yet. I'll keep
you
posted.
>> >> >> >> Frank >> >> >> >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> From: "Bill Austin" <baustin@moncpc.org
mailto:baustin@moncpc.org <mailto:baustin@moncpc.org mailto:baustin@moncpc.org>>
>> >> Date: January 11, 2011 4:30:44 PM EST >> >> To: "'Frank Gmeindl'" <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net
mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net
<mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net>>
>> >> Subject: Work on West Run >> >> Frank, >> >> >> >> DOH has a project to improve West Run. They would like to work
with you
>> and the Board on the proper way to accommodate cyclists. I would
appreciate
>> discussing the matter with you prior to the CAC Meeting
Thursday.
Also, they
>> let me know they identified five grates along Mon Boulevard that
they will
>> be replacing. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Bill Austin, AICP >> >> Executive Director >> >> Morgantown Monongalia MPO >> >> 82 Hart Field Road Ste. 105 >> >> Morgantown, WVA 26505 >> >> 304-291-9571 >> >> 304-692-7225 Mobile >> >> >> >> "Nobody can go back and make a new beginning, but anyone can
start
today
>> and make a new ending."-Maria Robinson >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bikeboard mailing list >> Bikeboard@cheat.org mailto:Bikeboard@cheat.org
<mailto:Bikeboard@cheat.org mailto:Bikeboard@cheat.org>
>> http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikeboard mailing list > Bikeboard@cheat.org mailto:Bikeboard@cheat.org
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Jonathan,
Thanks for the info! Especially for ferreting out http://www.moncpc.org/Ordinances/Zoning/WestRun/2600RoadsandRightsofWay08-10... It says how wide the roadway and the shoulders must be depending on what class the road is and how many lots or residential development units the road serves. Anybody know how many residential dwelling units West Run Road serves in the area governed by the zoning ordinance? I would guess it's more than 40. If so, the ordinance seems to require 12-foot lanes and 2-foot shoulders and a 50-foot right of way if West Run is classified as a collector which I think it is. Anybody know for sure? The specified minimum curve radii and slopes should also make for interesting discussion with DOH.
Frank
On Jan 19, 2011, at 4:26 PM, Jonathan Rosenbaum wrote:
On 1/19/2011 8:28 AM, Frank Gmeindl wrote:
Does anybody know if and how the recently enacted West Run zoning would affect West Run Road, the separate shared use path or any of the other ideas we discussed?
What passed recently was a zoning ordinance http://www.moncpc.org/Ordinances/Zoning/ .
I would direct questions to Rich Wood, Planner, and Bader Giggenbach, President of the County Planning Commission because they are the definitive experts about this subject.
This is good reading: http://www.moncpc.org/Ordinances/Zoning/WestRun/2600RoadsandRightsofWay08-10...
-Jonathan
On Jan 18, 2011, at 6:33 AM, Chet Parsons wrote:
I didn't think of it before, but now that West Run zoning has passed,WVDOH needs to plan according to it. I have no idea if that supports our efforts or not.
On Jan 17, 2011 9:35 PM, "Jonathan Rosenbaum" freesource@cheat.org wrote:
I have been riding West Run for years now for a variety of reasons, even before it was over-developed. There is a posted speed limit of 25 miles an hour, but that is never enforced. In general, most speeding occurs when people are using the road as a short-cut during rush hour. However, the state should explore installing an automated camera to snap photos of license plates of speeders, probably could help offset the cost of making improvements.
One of the most dangerous parts of the road between Van Voorhis and Stewartstown road is the intersection with Riddle. If you are going straight down West Run with your bicycle you definitely don't want to stay close to the curb, or you risk getting hooked by people waiting on Riddle to turn onto West Run. The visuals at the intersection are bad, and drivers misjudge bicyclists speed.
I've enjoyed bicycling on this road. The worst thing I even witnessed was when a large truck had just passed me, and a motorcyclist had just stopped about 50 feet ahead to take a left turn into a new apartment complex, he didn't have a blinker and was using hand signals. Fortunately the truck driver braked fast; the motocyclist probably never realized that he had almost became road kill.
It definitely needs sidewalks. I would rather see sidewalks built then have a special berm installed for cyclists.
-Jonathan
On 1/17/2011 12:21 PM, Don Spencer wrote:
Frank -- From my perspective you and Chet are on target. A road widening along West Run Road might suffice. It would seem that 11 feet might suffice. I fear, however, that wide lanes without markings would produce high rates of speed in places like West Run. If there could be 13 foot motor vehicle lanes, then it might be safer to have bike lanes (with intersection signage) to accommodate even lesser trained bicycle riders.
If the bicycle access can continue from West Run Road to the River, part of the problems for bicycles on Van Voorhis can be avoided. To travel from West Run Road, cyclists (and pedestrians) could have a relatively flat trail access to and from the downtown and downtown campuses and Star City streets via the rail trail.
Don
*From:*Frank Gmeindl [mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net] *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:50 AM *To:* Chet Parsons *Cc:* Don Spencer; Bicycle Board *Subject:* Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run
Thanks, Chet. I had already been there before I replied to Don. Don's message seems to indicate that there's more detail than one finds in the 2030 Transportation Plan to which you refer. Perhaps he just meant that there are more options than we're considering.
In the 2030 plan, a table of non-motorized projects, Table 30 begins on page 111. One project there #8 is, "Include bike-ped facilities in West Run road corridor". The descriptive text below the table says, "This project will ensure that bicycles and pedestrians are accommodated in the West Run Road transportation corridor and an additional connection to the Mon River Trail is provided. As part of the recommended roadway projects a bike trail is proposed along one side of the road." Aside from the bike trail along one side of the road, it doesn't say what those "facilities" might be. A map, Figure 25 on page 98 shows West Run but adds no useful info.
Three other projects that Don might be thinking of are #2, #3 and #4. Project #2 is relevant because it connects the eastern terminus of West Run Rd. near I-68 with the Decker Creek Trail through the Dug Hill Rd. corridor. I raised that in the dialog below. The other projects, as well as the remainder of #2 may be outside the scope of the West Run project. The remainder of #2 goes out to Cheat Lake along 857, #3 goes out Old Cheat Rd. and #4 connects Tyrone Rd. to the Decker Creek Trail through Brookhaven Rd. and Dug Hill Rd. They all involve adding a "bike lane/paved shoulder". Don are these what you meant?
Chet, thanks for prompting me to revisit the 2030 transportation plan. I had forgot much of it. While looking for the pages you indicated, I re-read the motorized plan for West Run. Page 109 contains a nice arial view of the plan to widen West Run, add a 3rd lane from Riddle to Van Voorhis and a description turn lanes to be added at Van Voohis, Riddle, Stewartstown and 119. It will be interesting to compare what DOH now has in mind with that which is currently in the 2030 plan.
Also, I see that item 22 on page 101 is a 3-lane corridor from the Research Park to West Run. That's a pretty big bike path:)
I highly recommend that anyone who worked on the BB Bike Route map study the map, Figure 25 on page 98 of section 9 of the 2030 plan, http://www.plantogether.org/plan.html . It verifies what we did but might give us some other ideas.
Frank
On Jan 17, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Chet Parsons wrote:
I can jump in here - thanks for the idea Don.
I think Don is referring to the nonmotorized segment of the 2030 Plan. If you go to that location on the MPO website you can look at Chapter Nine, the Recommended Plan (http://www.plantogether.org/plan.html). If you go to Page 112 you'll see the nonmotorized Plan. Most of the items referenced are footnoted with a number in a circle - these are highway projects that have a nonmotorized component. You can look back at Table 29 on page 101 for a listing of all the highway projects and their associated costs. Note item 22 there.
Table 30 shows the nonmotorized projects - of note are item 8 for West Run Road (note this plan was done before all the stuff got developed on West Run between Stewartstown and 119.
Chet
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 9:18 AM, Frank Gmeindl <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net> wrote:
Don,
What is the MPO bicycle route plan? Can you point me to it? I did a cursory search of the MPO website and didn't find it. I did find a "screening addendum" (attached) that contains a map showing a couple options around Dug Hill Rd. Is that it?
Frank
On Jan 16, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Don Spencer wrote:
Frank -- On the West Run related issues, I urge you to take a look at the MPO bicycle route plan. There is quite a few recommendations in that plan for establishing a "ring route" from the rail trail in Sabraton to Easton Hill and then down West Run to the River. The information does not address the width issues per se, but I think that referencing the Plan in our discussions with the MPO and DOH is to our advantage.
Don
*From:*bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] *On Behalf Of *Gunnar Shogren *Sent:* Thursday, January 13, 2011 12:47 PM *To:* Frank Gmeindl *Cc:* Bicycle Board *Subject:* Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 12:40 PM, Frank Gmeindl <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net> wrote:
I think we have two concepts. One, is to modify West Run Road to
make it more bike friendly and Two is a segregated path.
Modify West Run Rd. For many years before the District, I rode West Run Rd. several
times/week around 5 pm., always from east to west. See map at http://tinyurl.com/46ofgs3 It was fine except that occasionally, I'd be head-on with some junior doctor zipping along in his BMW or S-2000 and we'd both be eyeing the fence posts, mailboxes and culverts for room to squeeze by. Improving sight-lines is imperative; widening would be nice; shared lane markings and Bicycles May Use Full Lane signs, or at least share the road signs would help. Moving, leveling and realigning the intersection with 119 is also imperative.
I used to ride the old bike route over White Avenue to Dug Hill Rd,
Pierpont Rd., across 857, down Old Cheat Rd. to Easton then along 119 to West Run as shown on the map at http://tinyurl.com/46ofgs3. Except for the little stretches of 857 and 119, there wasn't much traffic but it's quite hilly and would probably discourage novices. However, once West Run is improved, it would be a suitable extension of the bike route with appropriate mapping to indicate the hills and to warn of the high traffic zones on 857 and 119.
Segregated Path The best segregated path option would be as I think Chet is
suggesting, basically between West Run Rd. and West Run creek. Heck, let's propose to go all the way to the Mon River trail in the long run.
Coming from the District out to Easton, you can cross Easton Hill Rd.
and continue out West Run Rd. where it dead-ends at I-68. Crossing the intersection by Easton School will be a challenge. Before I-68, West Run Rd. used to continue up the hill to Pierpont Rd. (Who hasn't ridden through the West Run culverts under I-68? Perhaps you missed the BB initiation ceremony;)
Don Spencer has told me that there has been some discussion of
running a trail along the west side of I-68 over to Sabraton. We should explore this. Then, we could connect with the Decker Creek trail and have a bicycle beltway around the City:) My concern remains that if we put all our energy into projects like this, it will eventually become impossible to ride your bike from the trail to any practical destination because we were diverted from reclaiming the streets that were ours to being with.
At Easton, going up Easton Hill and across the Mileground should be
an option that could be handled by a bicycle climbing lane. If they can crane a shopping center and housing development on the side of that hill and add a full-width travel lane and roundabouts to the Mileground, they can add 8 feet to Easton Hill for a bicycle climbing lane! I still occasionally ride up Easton Hill. It's not pleasant and if you don't take the lane, you'll get squeezed into the guard rail. It is nearly impossible to walk up or down there though because there is absolutely no shoulder.
Untrue! We've seen our buddy NickH going up it a few times. Did not seem like it would be a pleasant experience *at* *all*. But maybe Nick can chime in here.
The hundreds of people living in that valley now would be stranded
and starve to death when the gasoline runs out.
And this would be a bad thing?
Frank
On Jan 13, 2011, at 11:18 AM, Gunnar Shogren wrote:
> Wider road and signage. > I've biked on it off and on throughout the years, problem is that it > just doesn't lead anywhere easily, there's a big hill off it as soon > as you go toward town, or even go away from town. > Sure not many folks use it now, but perhaps they would if even to go > from Apt complex to complex, to play XBox or Magic: The Gathering. > Widen that puppy and put some signs up. Nice wide shoulder just to > ease the minds of less experienced cyclists as well. > > On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Chet Parsons <chetparsons@gmail.com
mailto:chetparsons@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think Bill Austin already has this stuff in his head, but here's
my two
>> cents. >> The section from Van Voorhis to Stewartstown can be used in
combination of
>> on-street markings and using the floodplain owned by WVU (basically
from the
>> dairy farm to Pineview). Once you get to Stewartstown, Ryan is right. >> You'll need to cut down behind Copper Beech and up between it and
the stuff
>> up on the backside of the Mileground. Follow that route until you
get to
>> Easton School, which will be closed soon anyway. Then tie in to
whatever
>> new development is getting ready to go in along 857 out to I-68.
If you
>> haven't noticed, the DOH has been clearing and widening 857 for about 4 >> months now and my bet is that there will be a new development with an >> additional access point by summer. >> Another option, but will probably be a more expensive easement, is
to create
>> a couple switchbacks up the farm on the opposite side of the hill
as West
>> Run Apartments and then run a path through the apartment complex
and out to
>> 119/857. >> Chet >> >> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Ryan Post <rpostwvu@gmail.com
mailto:rpostwvu@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>> West Run, from Stewartstown to 119 (where all the houses are), is
twisty,
>>> narrow and hilly. >>> >>> >>> >>> Given those conditions, it can never be bike friendly. Road needs
widened
>>> and/or straightened significantly. Or create a separate bike/walk
path. I
>>> doubt many would walk however, since there's very little within ½
mile.
>>> >>> >>> >>> It's a no-man's land of bad planning and shouldn't have been Zoned
on w/o
>>> correcting the road first, IMO. >>> >>> >>> >>> From: bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org
mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Frank Gmeindl >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 7:36 AM >>> To: Bicycle Board >>> Subject: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run >>> >>> >>> >>> Bicycle Board Members, >>> >>> >>> >>> Heads up. What are your ideas for making West Run more bicycle
friendly?
>>> >>> >>> >>> I don't know what DOH is planning for West Run yet. I'll keep you
posted.
>>> >>> >>> >>> Frank >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Begin forwarded message: >>> >>> From: "Bill Austin" <baustin@moncpc.org mailto:baustin@moncpc.org> >>> >>> Date: January 11, 2011 4:30:44 PM EST >>> >>> To: "'Frank Gmeindl'" <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net
mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net>
>>> >>> Subject: Work on West Run >>> >>> Frank, >>> >>> >>> >>> DOH has a project to improve West Run. They would like to work
with you
>>> and the Board on the proper way to accommodate cyclists. I would
appreciate
>>> discussing the matter with you prior to the CAC Meeting Thursday.
Also, they
>>> let me know they identified five grates along Mon Boulevard that
they will
>>> be replacing. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> >>> >>> Bill Austin, AICP >>> >>> Executive Director >>> >>> Morgantown Monongalia MPO >>> >>> 82 Hart Field Road Ste. 105 >>> >>> Morgantown, WVA 26505 >>> >>> 304-291-9571 >>> >>> 304-692-7225 Mobile >>> >>> >>> >>> "Nobody can go back and make a new beginning, but anyone can start
today
>>> and make a new ending."-Maria Robinson >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bikeboard mailing list >>> Bikeboard@cheat.org mailto:Bikeboard@cheat.org >>> http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bikeboard mailing list >> Bikeboard@cheat.org mailto:Bikeboard@cheat.org >> http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard >> > > _______________________________________________ > Bikeboard mailing list > Bikeboard@cheat.org mailto:Bikeboard@cheat.org > http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
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Sounds like a lot of stuff.
Can't you just ask Damien?
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:
Jonathan, Thanks for the info! Especially for ferreting out http://www.moncpc.org/Ordinances/Zoning/WestRun/2600RoadsandRightsofWay08-10... It says how wide the roadway and the shoulders must be depending on what class the road is and how many lots or residential development units the road serves. Anybody know how many residential dwelling units West Run Road serves in the area governed by the zoning ordinance? I would guess it's more than 40. If so, the ordinance seems to require 12-foot lanes and 2-foot shoulders and a 50-foot right of way if West Run is classified as a collector which I think it is. Anybody know for sure? The specified minimum curve radii and slopes should also make for interesting discussion with DOH. Frank
On Jan 19, 2011, at 4:26 PM, Jonathan Rosenbaum wrote:
On 1/19/2011 8:28 AM, Frank Gmeindl wrote:
Does anybody know if and how the recently enacted West Run zoning would affect West Run Road, the separate shared use path or any of the other ideas we discussed?
What passed recently was a zoning ordinance http://www.moncpc.org/Ordinances/Zoning/ .
I would direct questions to Rich Wood, Planner, and Bader Giggenbach, President of the County Planning Commission because they are the definitive experts about this subject.
This is good reading: http://www.moncpc.org/Ordinances/Zoning/WestRun/2600RoadsandRightsofWay08-10...
-Jonathan
On Jan 18, 2011, at 6:33 AM, Chet Parsons wrote:
I didn't think of it before, but now that West Run zoning has passed,WVDOH needs to plan according to it. I have no idea if that supports our efforts or not.
On Jan 17, 2011 9:35 PM, "Jonathan Rosenbaum" freesource@cheat.org wrote:
I have been riding West Run for years now for a variety of reasons, even before it was over-developed. There is a posted speed limit of 25 miles an hour, but that is never enforced. In general, most speeding occurs when people are using the road as a short-cut during rush hour. However, the state should explore installing an automated camera to snap photos of license plates of speeders, probably could help offset the cost of making improvements.
One of the most dangerous parts of the road between Van Voorhis and Stewartstown road is the intersection with Riddle. If you are going straight down West Run with your bicycle you definitely don't want to stay close to the curb, or you risk getting hooked by people waiting on Riddle to turn onto West Run. The visuals at the intersection are bad, and drivers misjudge bicyclists speed.
I've enjoyed bicycling on this road. The worst thing I even witnessed was when a large truck had just passed me, and a motorcyclist had just stopped about 50 feet ahead to take a left turn into a new apartment complex, he didn't have a blinker and was using hand signals. Fortunately the truck driver braked fast; the motocyclist probably never realized that he had almost became road kill.
It definitely needs sidewalks. I would rather see sidewalks built then have a special berm installed for cyclists.
-Jonathan
On 1/17/2011 12:21 PM, Don Spencer wrote:
Frank -- From my perspective you and Chet are on target. A road widening along West Run Road might suffice. It would seem that 11 feet might suffice. I fear, however, that wide lanes without markings would produce high rates of speed in places like West Run. If there could be 13 foot motor vehicle lanes, then it might be safer to have bike lanes (with intersection signage) to accommodate even lesser trained bicycle riders.
If the bicycle access can continue from West Run Road to the River, part of the problems for bicycles on Van Voorhis can be avoided. To travel from West Run Road, cyclists (and pedestrians) could have a relatively flat trail access to and from the downtown and downtown campuses and Star City streets via the rail trail.
Don
*From:*Frank Gmeindl [mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net] *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:50 AM *To:* Chet Parsons *Cc:* Don Spencer; Bicycle Board *Subject:* Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run
Thanks, Chet. I had already been there before I replied to Don. Don's message seems to indicate that there's more detail than one finds in the 2030 Transportation Plan to which you refer. Perhaps he just meant that there are more options than we're considering.
In the 2030 plan, a table of non-motorized projects, Table 30 begins on page 111. One project there #8 is, "Include bike-ped facilities in West Run road corridor". The descriptive text below the table says, "This project will ensure that bicycles and pedestrians are accommodated in the West Run Road transportation corridor and an additional connection to the Mon River Trail is provided. As part of the recommended roadway projects a bike trail is proposed along one side of the road." Aside from the bike trail along one side of the road, it doesn't say what those "facilities" might be. A map, Figure 25 on page 98 shows West Run but adds no useful info.
Three other projects that Don might be thinking of are #2, #3 and #4. Project #2 is relevant because it connects the eastern terminus of West Run Rd. near I-68 with the Decker Creek Trail through the Dug Hill Rd. corridor. I raised that in the dialog below. The other projects, as well as the remainder of #2 may be outside the scope of the West Run project. The remainder of #2 goes out to Cheat Lake along 857, #3 goes out Old Cheat Rd. and #4 connects Tyrone Rd. to the Decker Creek Trail through Brookhaven Rd. and Dug Hill Rd. They all involve adding a "bike lane/paved shoulder". Don are these what you meant?
Chet, thanks for prompting me to revisit the 2030 transportation plan. I had forgot much of it. While looking for the pages you indicated, I re-read the motorized plan for West Run. Page 109 contains a nice arial view of the plan to widen West Run, add a 3rd lane from Riddle to Van Voorhis and a description turn lanes to be added at Van Voohis, Riddle, Stewartstown and 119. It will be interesting to compare what DOH now has in mind with that which is currently in the 2030 plan.
Also, I see that item 22 on page 101 is a 3-lane corridor from the Research Park to West Run. That's a pretty big bike path:)
I highly recommend that anyone who worked on the BB Bike Route map study the map, Figure 25 on page 98 of section 9 of the 2030 plan, http://www.plantogether.org/plan.html . It verifies what we did but might give us some other ideas.
Frank
On Jan 17, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Chet Parsons wrote:
I can jump in here - thanks for the idea Don.
I think Don is referring to the nonmotorized segment of the 2030 Plan. If you go to that location on the MPO website you can look at Chapter Nine, the Recommended Plan (http://www.plantogether.org/plan.html). If you go to Page 112 you'll see the nonmotorized Plan. Most of the items referenced are footnoted with a number in a circle - these are highway projects that have a nonmotorized component. You can look back at Table 29 on page 101 for a listing of all the highway projects and their associated costs. Note item 22 there.
Table 30 shows the nonmotorized projects - of note are item 8 for West Run Road (note this plan was done before all the stuff got developed on West Run between Stewartstown and 119.
Chet
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 9:18 AM, Frank Gmeindl <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net> wrote:
Don,
What is the MPO bicycle route plan? Can you point me to it? I did a cursory search of the MPO website and didn't find it. I did find a "screening addendum" (attached) that contains a map showing a couple options around Dug Hill Rd. Is that it?
Frank
On Jan 16, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Don Spencer wrote:
Frank -- On the West Run related issues, I urge you to take a look at the MPO bicycle route plan. There is quite a few recommendations in that plan for establishing a "ring route" from the rail trail in Sabraton to Easton Hill and then down West Run to the River. The information does not address the width issues per se, but I think that referencing the Plan in our discussions with the MPO and DOH is to our advantage.
Don
*From:*bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] *On Behalf Of *Gunnar Shogren *Sent:* Thursday, January 13, 2011 12:47 PM *To:* Frank Gmeindl *Cc:* Bicycle Board *Subject:* Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 12:40 PM, Frank Gmeindl <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net> wrote:
I think we have two concepts. One, is to modify West Run Road to
make it more bike friendly and Two is a segregated path.
Modify West Run Rd. For many years before the District, I rode West Run Rd. several
times/week around 5 pm., always from east to west. See map at http://tinyurl.com/46ofgs3 It was fine except that occasionally, I'd be head-on with some junior doctor zipping along in his BMW or S-2000 and we'd both be eyeing the fence posts, mailboxes and culverts for room to squeeze by. Improving sight-lines is imperative; widening would be nice; shared lane markings and Bicycles May Use Full Lane signs, or at least share the road signs would help. Moving, leveling and realigning the intersection with 119 is also imperative.
I used to ride the old bike route over White Avenue to Dug Hill Rd,
Pierpont Rd., across 857, down Old Cheat Rd. to Easton then along 119 to West Run as shown on the map at http://tinyurl.com/46ofgs3. Except for the little stretches of 857 and 119, there wasn't much traffic but it's quite hilly and would probably discourage novices. However, once West Run is improved, it would be a suitable extension of the bike route with appropriate mapping to indicate the hills and to warn of the high traffic zones on 857 and 119.
Segregated Path The best segregated path option would be as I think Chet is
suggesting, basically between West Run Rd. and West Run creek. Heck, let's propose to go all the way to the Mon River trail in the long run.
Coming from the District out to Easton, you can cross Easton Hill Rd.
and continue out West Run Rd. where it dead-ends at I-68. Crossing the intersection by Easton School will be a challenge. Before I-68, West Run Rd. used to continue up the hill to Pierpont Rd. (Who hasn't ridden through the West Run culverts under I-68? Perhaps you missed the BB initiation ceremony;)
Don Spencer has told me that there has been some discussion of
running a trail along the west side of I-68 over to Sabraton. We should explore this. Then, we could connect with the Decker Creek trail and have a bicycle beltway around the City:) My concern remains that if we put all our energy into projects like this, it will eventually become impossible to ride your bike from the trail to any practical destination because we were diverted from reclaiming the streets that were ours to being with.
At Easton, going up Easton Hill and across the Mileground should be
an option that could be handled by a bicycle climbing lane. If they can crane a shopping center and housing development on the side of that hill and add a full-width travel lane and roundabouts to the Mileground, they can add 8 feet to Easton Hill for a bicycle climbing lane! I still occasionally ride up Easton Hill. It's not pleasant and if you don't take the lane, you'll get squeezed into the guard rail. It is nearly impossible to walk up or down there though because there is absolutely no shoulder.
Untrue! We've seen our buddy NickH going up it a few times. Did not seem like it would be a pleasant experience *at* *all*. But maybe Nick can chime in here.
The hundreds of people living in that valley now would be stranded
and starve to death when the gasoline runs out.
And this would be a bad thing?
Frank
On Jan 13, 2011, at 11:18 AM, Gunnar Shogren wrote:
Wider road and signage. I've biked on it off and on throughout the years, problem is that it just doesn't lead anywhere easily, there's a big hill off it as soon as you go toward town, or even go away from town. Sure not many folks use it now, but perhaps they would if even to go from Apt complex to complex, to play XBox or Magic: The Gathering. Widen that puppy and put some signs up. Nice wide shoulder just to ease the minds of less experienced cyclists as well.
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Chet Parsons <chetparsons@gmail.com
mailto:chetparsons@gmail.com> wrote:
I think Bill Austin already has this stuff in his head, but here's
my two
cents. The section from Van Voorhis to Stewartstown can be used in
combination of
on-street markings and using the floodplain owned by WVU (basically
from the
dairy farm to Pineview). Once you get to Stewartstown, Ryan is right. You'll need to cut down behind Copper Beech and up between it and
the stuff
up on the backside of the Mileground. Follow that route until you
get to
Easton School, which will be closed soon anyway. Then tie in to
whatever
new development is getting ready to go in along 857 out to I-68.
If you
haven't noticed, the DOH has been clearing and widening 857 for about 4 months now and my bet is that there will be a new development with an additional access point by summer. Another option, but will probably be a more expensive easement, is
to create
a couple switchbacks up the farm on the opposite side of the hill
as West
Run Apartments and then run a path through the apartment complex
and out to
119/857. Chet
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Ryan Post <rpostwvu@gmail.com
mailto:rpostwvu@gmail.com> wrote:
> > West Run, from Stewartstown to 119 (where all the houses are), is
twisty,
> narrow and hilly. > > > > Given those conditions, it can never be bike friendly. Road needs
widened
> and/or straightened significantly. Or create a separate bike/walk
path. I
> doubt many would walk however, since there's very little within ½
mile.
> > > > It's a no-man's land of bad planning and shouldn't have been Zoned
on w/o
> correcting the road first, IMO. > > > > From: bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org
mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] On
> Behalf Of Frank Gmeindl > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 7:36 AM > To: Bicycle Board > Subject: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run > > > > Bicycle Board Members, > > > > Heads up. What are your ideas for making West Run more bicycle
friendly?
> > > > I don't know what DOH is planning for West Run yet. I'll keep you
posted.
> > > > Frank > > > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: "Bill Austin" <baustin@moncpc.org mailto:baustin@moncpc.org> > > Date: January 11, 2011 4:30:44 PM EST > > To: "'Frank Gmeindl'" <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net
mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net>
> > Subject: Work on West Run > > Frank, > > > > DOH has a project to improve West Run. They would like to work
with you
> and the Board on the proper way to accommodate cyclists. I would
appreciate
> discussing the matter with you prior to the CAC Meeting Thursday.
Also, they
> let me know they identified five grates along Mon Boulevard that
they will
> be replacing. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill Austin, AICP > > Executive Director > > Morgantown Monongalia MPO > > 82 Hart Field Road Ste. 105 > > Morgantown, WVA 26505 > > 304-291-9571 > > 304-692-7225 Mobile > > > > "Nobody can go back and make a new beginning, but anyone can start
today
> and make a new ending."-Maria Robinson > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikeboard mailing list > Bikeboard@cheat.org mailto:Bikeboard@cheat.org > http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org mailto:Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
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Thanks Ryan, Chet, gunnar, Chip and Jonathan for your help crafting the message to Bill Austin. I hope he'll pass it on to Perry Keller and that they'll invite me along if they cruise West Run tomorrow.
In the message, I tried to balance the inputs that you gave me as well as inputs that I got from League Cycling Instructors in addition to gunnar and Ryan and inputs that I got from a broader group of bicycle driving experts.
One commenter used the term, "motor vehicle lane". Except for the interstate highway system, there are no "motor vehicle lanes". The lanes on our roadways are bicycle lanes as much as they are motor vehicle lanes. Unfortunately, I think this idea that there are motor vehicle lanes is shared by the MPO and WVDOH and may be one reason that we are so discriminated against. Perhaps we can call them "travel lanes".
Frank Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
On Jan 18, 2011, at 6:33 AM, Chet Parsons wrote:
I didn't think of it before, but now that West Run zoning has passed,WVDOH needs to plan according to it. I have no idea if that supports our efforts or not.
On Jan 17, 2011 9:35 PM, "Jonathan Rosenbaum" freesource@cheat.org wrote:
I have been riding West Run for years now for a variety of reasons, even before it was over-developed. There is a posted speed limit of 25 miles an hour, but that is never enforced. In general, most speeding occurs when people are using the road as a short-cut during rush hour. However, the state should explore installing an automated camera to snap photos of license plates of speeders, probably could help offset the cost of making improvements.
One of the most dangerous parts of the road between Van Voorhis and Stewartstown road is the intersection with Riddle. If you are going straight down West Run with your bicycle you definitely don't want to stay close to the curb, or you risk getting hooked by people waiting on Riddle to turn onto West Run. The visuals at the intersection are bad, and drivers misjudge bicyclists speed.
I've enjoyed bicycling on this road. The worst thing I even witnessed was when a large truck had just passed me, and a motorcyclist had just stopped about 50 feet ahead to take a left turn into a new apartment complex, he didn't have a blinker and was using hand signals. Fortunately the truck driver braked fast; the motocyclist probably never realized that he had almost became road kill.
It definitely needs sidewalks. I would rather see sidewalks built then have a special berm installed for cyclists.
-Jonathan
On 1/17/2011 12:21 PM, Don Spencer wrote:
Frank -- From my perspective you and Chet are on target. A road widening along West Run Road might suffice. It would seem that 11 feet might suffice. I fear, however, that wide lanes without markings would produce high rates of speed in places like West Run. If there could be 13 foot motor vehicle lanes, then it might be safer to have bike lanes (with intersection signage) to accommodate even lesser trained bicycle riders.
If the bicycle access can continue from West Run Road to the River, part of the problems for bicycles on Van Voorhis can be avoided. To travel from West Run Road, cyclists (and pedestrians) could have a relatively flat trail access to and from the downtown and downtown campuses and Star City streets via the rail trail.
Don
*From:*Frank Gmeindl [mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net] *Sent:* Monday, January 17, 2011 11:50 AM *To:* Chet Parsons *Cc:* Don Spencer; Bicycle Board *Subject:* Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run
Thanks, Chet. I had already been there before I replied to Don. Don's message seems to indicate that there's more detail than one finds in the 2030 Transportation Plan to which you refer. Perhaps he just meant that there are more options than we're considering.
In the 2030 plan, a table of non-motorized projects, Table 30 begins on page 111. One project there #8 is, "Include bike-ped facilities in West Run road corridor". The descriptive text below the table says, "This project will ensure that bicycles and pedestrians are accommodated in the West Run Road transportation corridor and an additional connection to the Mon River Trail is provided. As part of the recommended roadway projects a bike trail is proposed along one side of the road." Aside from the bike trail along one side of the road, it doesn't say what those "facilities" might be. A map, Figure 25 on page 98 shows West Run but adds no useful info.
Three other projects that Don might be thinking of are #2, #3 and #4. Project #2 is relevant because it connects the eastern terminus of West Run Rd. near I-68 with the Decker Creek Trail through the Dug Hill Rd. corridor. I raised that in the dialog below. The other projects, as well as the remainder of #2 may be outside the scope of the West Run project. The remainder of #2 goes out to Cheat Lake along 857, #3 goes out Old Cheat Rd. and #4 connects Tyrone Rd. to the Decker Creek Trail through Brookhaven Rd. and Dug Hill Rd. They all involve adding a "bike lane/paved shoulder". Don are these what you meant?
Chet, thanks for prompting me to revisit the 2030 transportation plan. I had forgot much of it. While looking for the pages you indicated, I re-read the motorized plan for West Run. Page 109 contains a nice arial view of the plan to widen West Run, add a 3rd lane from Riddle to Van Voorhis and a description turn lanes to be added at Van Voohis, Riddle, Stewartstown and 119. It will be interesting to compare what DOH now has in mind with that which is currently in the 2030 plan.
Also, I see that item 22 on page 101 is a 3-lane corridor from the Research Park to West Run. That's a pretty big bike path:)
I highly recommend that anyone who worked on the BB Bike Route map study the map, Figure 25 on page 98 of section 9 of the 2030 plan, http://www.plantogether.org/plan.html . It verifies what we did but might give us some other ideas.
Frank
On Jan 17, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Chet Parsons wrote:
I can jump in here - thanks for the idea Don.
I think Don is referring to the nonmotorized segment of the 2030 Plan. If you go to that location on the MPO website you can look at Chapter Nine, the Recommended Plan (http://www.plantogether.org/plan.html). If you go to Page 112 you'll see the nonmotorized Plan. Most of the items referenced are footnoted with a number in a circle - these are highway projects that have a nonmotorized component. You can look back at Table 29 on page 101 for a listing of all the highway projects and their associated costs. Note item 22 there.
Table 30 shows the nonmotorized projects - of note are item 8 for West Run Road (note this plan was done before all the stuff got developed on West Run between Stewartstown and 119.
Chet
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 9:18 AM, Frank Gmeindl <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net> wrote:
Don,
What is the MPO bicycle route plan? Can you point me to it? I did a cursory search of the MPO website and didn't find it. I did find a "screening addendum" (attached) that contains a map showing a couple options around Dug Hill Rd. Is that it?
Frank
On Jan 16, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Don Spencer wrote:
Frank -- On the West Run related issues, I urge you to take a look at the MPO bicycle route plan. There is quite a few recommendations in that plan for establishing a "ring route" from the rail trail in Sabraton to Easton Hill and then down West Run to the River. The information does not address the width issues per se, but I think that referencing the Plan in our discussions with the MPO and DOH is to our advantage.
Don
*From:*bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] *On Behalf Of *Gunnar Shogren *Sent:* Thursday, January 13, 2011 12:47 PM *To:* Frank Gmeindl *Cc:* Bicycle Board *Subject:* Re: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 12:40 PM, Frank Gmeindl <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net> wrote:
I think we have two concepts. One, is to modify West Run Road to
make it more bike friendly and Two is a segregated path.
Modify West Run Rd. For many years before the District, I rode West Run Rd. several
times/week around 5 pm., always from east to west. See map at http://tinyurl.com/46ofgs3 It was fine except that occasionally, I'd be head-on with some junior doctor zipping along in his BMW or S-2000 and we'd both be eyeing the fence posts, mailboxes and culverts for room to squeeze by. Improving sight-lines is imperative; widening would be nice; shared lane markings and Bicycles May Use Full Lane signs, or at least share the road signs would help. Moving, leveling and realigning the intersection with 119 is also imperative.
I used to ride the old bike route over White Avenue to Dug Hill Rd,
Pierpont Rd., across 857, down Old Cheat Rd. to Easton then along 119 to West Run as shown on the map at http://tinyurl.com/46ofgs3. Except for the little stretches of 857 and 119, there wasn't much traffic but it's quite hilly and would probably discourage novices. However, once West Run is improved, it would be a suitable extension of the bike route with appropriate mapping to indicate the hills and to warn of the high traffic zones on 857 and 119.
Segregated Path The best segregated path option would be as I think Chet is
suggesting, basically between West Run Rd. and West Run creek. Heck, let's propose to go all the way to the Mon River trail in the long run.
Coming from the District out to Easton, you can cross Easton Hill Rd.
and continue out West Run Rd. where it dead-ends at I-68. Crossing the intersection by Easton School will be a challenge. Before I-68, West Run Rd. used to continue up the hill to Pierpont Rd. (Who hasn't ridden through the West Run culverts under I-68? Perhaps you missed the BB initiation ceremony;)
Don Spencer has told me that there has been some discussion of
running a trail along the west side of I-68 over to Sabraton. We should explore this. Then, we could connect with the Decker Creek trail and have a bicycle beltway around the City:) My concern remains that if we put all our energy into projects like this, it will eventually become impossible to ride your bike from the trail to any practical destination because we were diverted from reclaiming the streets that were ours to being with.
At Easton, going up Easton Hill and across the Mileground should be
an option that could be handled by a bicycle climbing lane. If they can crane a shopping center and housing development on the side of that hill and add a full-width travel lane and roundabouts to the Mileground, they can add 8 feet to Easton Hill for a bicycle climbing lane! I still occasionally ride up Easton Hill. It's not pleasant and if you don't take the lane, you'll get squeezed into the guard rail. It is nearly impossible to walk up or down there though because there is absolutely no shoulder.
Untrue! We've seen our buddy NickH going up it a few times. Did not seem like it would be a pleasant experience *at* *all*. But maybe Nick can chime in here.
The hundreds of people living in that valley now would be stranded
and starve to death when the gasoline runs out.
And this would be a bad thing?
Frank
On Jan 13, 2011, at 11:18 AM, Gunnar Shogren wrote:
Wider road and signage. I've biked on it off and on throughout the years, problem is that it just doesn't lead anywhere easily, there's a big hill off it as soon as you go toward town, or even go away from town. Sure not many folks use it now, but perhaps they would if even to go from Apt complex to complex, to play XBox or Magic: The Gathering. Widen that puppy and put some signs up. Nice wide shoulder just to ease the minds of less experienced cyclists as well.
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Chet Parsons <chetparsons@gmail.com
mailto:chetparsons@gmail.com> wrote:
I think Bill Austin already has this stuff in his head, but here's
my two
cents. The section from Van Voorhis to Stewartstown can be used in
combination of
on-street markings and using the floodplain owned by WVU (basically
from the
dairy farm to Pineview). Once you get to Stewartstown, Ryan is right. You'll need to cut down behind Copper Beech and up between it and
the stuff
up on the backside of the Mileground. Follow that route until you
get to
Easton School, which will be closed soon anyway. Then tie in to
whatever
new development is getting ready to go in along 857 out to I-68.
If you
haven't noticed, the DOH has been clearing and widening 857 for about 4 months now and my bet is that there will be a new development with an additional access point by summer. Another option, but will probably be a more expensive easement, is
to create
a couple switchbacks up the farm on the opposite side of the hill
as West
Run Apartments and then run a path through the apartment complex
and out to
119/857. Chet
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Ryan Post <rpostwvu@gmail.com
mailto:rpostwvu@gmail.com> wrote:
> > West Run, from Stewartstown to 119 (where all the houses are), is
twisty,
> narrow and hilly. > > > > Given those conditions, it can never be bike friendly. Road needs
widened
> and/or straightened significantly. Or create a separate bike/walk
path. I
> doubt many would walk however, since there's very little within ½
mile.
> > > > It's a no-man's land of bad planning and shouldn't have been Zoned
on w/o
> correcting the road first, IMO. > > > > From: bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org
mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org [mailto:bikeboard-bounces@cheat.org] On
> Behalf Of Frank Gmeindl > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 7:36 AM > To: Bicycle Board > Subject: [Bikeboard] Fwd: Work on West Run > > > > Bicycle Board Members, > > > > Heads up. What are your ideas for making West Run more bicycle
friendly?
> > > > I don't know what DOH is planning for West Run yet. I'll keep you
posted.
> > > > Frank > > > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: "Bill Austin" <baustin@moncpc.org mailto:baustin@moncpc.org> > > Date: January 11, 2011 4:30:44 PM EST > > To: "'Frank Gmeindl'" <frank.gmeindl@comcast.net
mailto:frank.gmeindl@comcast.net>
> > Subject: Work on West Run > > Frank, > > > > DOH has a project to improve West Run. They would like to work
with you
> and the Board on the proper way to accommodate cyclists. I would
appreciate
> discussing the matter with you prior to the CAC Meeting Thursday.
Also, they
> let me know they identified five grates along Mon Boulevard that
they will
> be replacing. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill Austin, AICP > > Executive Director > > Morgantown Monongalia MPO > > 82 Hart Field Road Ste. 105 > > Morgantown, WVA 26505 > > 304-291-9571 > > 304-692-7225 Mobile > > > > "Nobody can go back and make a new beginning, but anyone can start
today
> and make a new ending."-Maria Robinson > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikeboard mailing list > Bikeboard@cheat.org mailto:Bikeboard@cheat.org > http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
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Chet Parsons -
Frank Gmeindl -
Gunnar Shogren -
Jonathan Rosenbaum