Kasey,
I would like to encourage WVCC to forget about a 3-foot passing rule and instead concentrate on repealing 17C-11-5 (a) which requires cyclists to ride as far to the right as practicable.
3-foot laws are not enforced and may not be enforceable. 3-feet is not enough when a 55 mph tractor trailer passes a 10 mph cyclist. (See attached Rutgers 3-foot final report.)
Riding far to the right leads to * Motorists passing bicyclists too closely; * Motorists intruding into the adjacent lane when there is on-coming traffic; * Right-turning vehicles crashing into cyclists at intersections and driveways; * On-coming left-turning vehicles crashing into cyclists; * Overtaking vehicles crashing into left-turning cyclists; * Cyclists crashing because of objects, debris; pedestrians; animals and surface hazards that are more prevalent at the right edge of the roadway. (See attached talking point paper.)
Bicyclists that control the lane are almost always passed by the overtaking motorist making a full lane change, giving between 6 to 8 feet of passing clearance. If you have ridden this way, you know it is true. Why ask/plead/beg for 3 feet when predominant behavior secures more than twice that much passing margin and better passing behavior (lane changes instead of straddle and in-lane passes)?
Three foot passing laws are a bad reaction to the consequences of riding too far right. If you want passing space, solve the problem by eliminating the FTR law instead of applying a patch or "fix" such as a three foot passing law that doesn't address or solve the root cause of close passing.
We should also continue to pursue repeal of 17C-11-5 (c) which requires cyclists to use a side-path when available and not the roadway.
Frank D. Gmeindl LCI #1703 491 Wilson Avenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:48 AM, Kasey Russell wrote:
Thanks everyone for your responses. We will meet at Steve Fowler's office at 901 Quarrier Street, Charleston on Monday, Nov. 18th at 10 am. Steve, looks like there will only be a few in person but we will need a conference phone as a few will call in. For those calling in please use our usual number: 641-715-3620; code is 877115#. Kasey
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 8:20 AM, Kasey Russell russell.kasey@gmail.com wrote: Hello WVCC Members -- We would like to have a Legislative Committee meeting on Monday, Nov. 18th at 10:00 a.m. Would you all be able to attend either in person or via conference call? We will be meeting in Steve Fowler's office in downtown Charleston and will have access to a conference phone. Please let me know. I would expect our meeting to last 1 12/ hours. Thanks, kasey
Is there an agenda for this conference call/meeting?
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:
Kasey,
I would like to encourage WVCC to forget about a 3-foot passing rule and instead concentrate on repealing 17C-11-5 (a) which requires cyclists to ride as far to the right as practicable.
3-foot laws are not enforced and may not be enforceable. 3-feet is not enough when a 55 mph tractor trailer passes a 10 mph cyclist. (See attached Rutgers 3-foot final report.)
Riding far to the right leads to
- Motorists passing bicyclists too closely;
- Motorists intruding into the adjacent lane when there is on-coming
traffic;
- Right-turning vehicles crashing into cyclists at intersections and
driveways;
- On-coming left-turning vehicles crashing into cyclists;
- Overtaking vehicles crashing into left-turning cyclists;
- Cyclists crashing because of objects, debris; pedestrians; animals and
surface hazards that are more prevalent at the right edge of the roadway. (See attached talking point paper.)
Bicyclists that control the lane are almost always passed by the overtaking motorist making a full lane change, giving between 6 to 8 feet of passing clearance. If you have ridden this way, you know it is true. Why ask/plead/beg for 3 feet when predominant behavior secures more than twice that much passing margin and better passing behavior (lane changes instead of straddle and in-lane passes)?
Three foot passing laws are a bad reaction to the consequences of riding too far right. If you want passing space, solve the problem by eliminating the FTR law instead of applying a patch or "fix" such as a three foot passing law that doesn't address or solve the root cause of close passing.
We should also continue to pursue repeal of 17C-11-5 (c) which requires cyclists to use a side-path when available and not the roadway.
Frank D. Gmeindl LCI #1703 491 Wilson Avenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 *Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles*
On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:48 AM, Kasey Russell wrote:
Thanks everyone for your responses. We will meet at Steve Fowler's office at 901 Quarrier Street, Charleston on Monday, Nov. 18th at 10 am. Steve, looks like there will only be a few in person but we will need a conference phone as a few will call in. For those calling in please use our usual number: 641-715-3620; code is 877115#. Kasey
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 8:20 AM, Kasey Russell russell.kasey@gmail.comwrote:
Hello WVCC Members -- We would like to have a Legislative Committee meeting on Monday, Nov. 18th at 10:00 a.m. Would you all be able to attend either in person or via conference call? We will be meeting in Steve Fowler's office in downtown Charleston and will have access to a conference phone. Please let me know. I would expect our meeting to last 1 12/ hours. Thanks, kasey
Re: agenda -- I was planning to discuss the "Bike Safety Bill" we introduced last year and to determine if we want to modify it in any way for the upcoming session. I think Frank's email that he just sent is a great place to start with our discussion. We will also discuss if there are any additional pieces of legislation that we could pursue given our resources. Things mentioned to date: uniform code on public trails regarding trespass (ATVs mostly); license plate special funding. Please let me know if I'm missing anything. Thanks, kasey
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Emmett Pepper epepper@vt.edu wrote:
Is there an agenda for this conference call/meeting?
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:
Kasey,
I would like to encourage WVCC to forget about a 3-foot passing rule and instead concentrate on repealing 17C-11-5 (a) which requires cyclists to ride as far to the right as practicable.
3-foot laws are not enforced and may not be enforceable. 3-feet is not enough when a 55 mph tractor trailer passes a 10 mph cyclist. (See attached Rutgers 3-foot final report.)
Riding far to the right leads to
- Motorists passing bicyclists too closely;
- Motorists intruding into the adjacent lane when there is on-coming
traffic;
- Right-turning vehicles crashing into cyclists at intersections and
driveways;
- On-coming left-turning vehicles crashing into cyclists;
- Overtaking vehicles crashing into left-turning cyclists;
- Cyclists crashing because of objects, debris; pedestrians; animals and
surface hazards that are more prevalent at the right edge of the roadway. (See attached talking point paper.)
Bicyclists that control the lane are almost always passed by the overtaking motorist making a full lane change, giving between 6 to 8 feet of passing clearance. If you have ridden this way, you know it is true. Why ask/plead/beg for 3 feet when predominant behavior secures more than twice that much passing margin and better passing behavior (lane changes instead of straddle and in-lane passes)?
Three foot passing laws are a bad reaction to the consequences of riding too far right. If you want passing space, solve the problem by eliminating the FTR law instead of applying a patch or "fix" such as a three foot passing law that doesn't address or solve the root cause of close passing.
We should also continue to pursue repeal of 17C-11-5 (c) which requires cyclists to use a side-path when available and not the roadway.
Frank D. Gmeindl LCI #1703 491 Wilson Avenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 *Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles*
On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:48 AM, Kasey Russell wrote:
Thanks everyone for your responses. We will meet at Steve Fowler's office at 901 Quarrier Street, Charleston on Monday, Nov. 18th at 10 am. Steve, looks like there will only be a few in person but we will need a conference phone as a few will call in. For those calling in please use our usual number: 641-715-3620; code is 877115#. Kasey
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 8:20 AM, Kasey Russell russell.kasey@gmail.comwrote:
Hello WVCC Members -- We would like to have a Legislative Committee meeting on Monday, Nov. 18th at 10:00 a.m. Would you all be able to attend either in person or via conference call? We will be meeting in Steve Fowler's office in downtown Charleston and will have access to a conference phone. Please let me know. I would expect our meeting to last 1 12/ hours. Thanks, kasey
I would propose the following;
1. Do we focus on the passage of the "three foot rule" or attempt to clean up all the problem statutes?
2. Current law for passing a bike requires an audible signal, and then passing and returning to the lane of travel only when "safe". Almost no one follows this law when passing a bicycle. An easy to understand "three foot rule" would be much better.
Problem statutes/
a/ 17C-11-5(a) "as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable"
Fix - Colorado law "far enough to the right as judged safe by the bicyclist to facilitate the movement of overtaking vehicles"
b/ 17C-11-5(c) Have to use a bike path
Fix - repeal
c/ 17C-11-7(b) have to use a bell
Fix - repeal.
From: Emmett Pepper [mailto:epepper@vt.edu] Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 9:42 AM To: Frank Gmeindl Cc: Kasey Russell; Don Spencer; Gary Zuckett; Rahul Gupta; Strawn, Dennis A; Patrick Donovan; Christiaan Abildso; bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Board; Steve Fowler; Craig Slaughter; Greg Garrett; John Francis Subject: Re: WVCC Legislative Committee Meeting
Is there an agenda for this conference call/meeting?
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:
Kasey,
I would like to encourage WVCC to forget about a 3-foot passing rule and instead concentrate on repealing 17C-11-5 (a) which requires cyclists to ride as far to the right as practicable.
3-foot laws are not enforced and may not be enforceable. 3-feet is not enough when a 55 mph tractor trailer passes a 10 mph cyclist. (See attached Rutgers 3-foot final report.)
Riding far to the right leads to
* Motorists passing bicyclists too closely;
* Motorists intruding into the adjacent lane when there is on-coming traffic;
* Right-turning vehicles crashing into cyclists at intersections and driveways;
* On-coming left-turning vehicles crashing into cyclists;
* Overtaking vehicles crashing into left-turning cyclists;
* Cyclists crashing because of objects, debris; pedestrians; animals and surface hazards that are more prevalent at the right edge of the roadway.
(See attached talking point paper.)
Bicyclists that control the lane are almost always passed by the overtaking motorist making a full lane change, giving between 6 to 8 feet of passing clearance. If you have ridden this way, you know it is true. Why ask/plead/beg for 3 feet when predominant behavior secures more than twice that much passing margin and better passing behavior (lane changes instead of straddle and in-lane passes)?
Three foot passing laws are a bad reaction to the consequences of riding too far right. If you want passing space, solve the problem by eliminating the FTR law instead of applying a patch or "fix" such as a three foot passing law that doesn't address or solve the root cause of close passing.
We should also continue to pursue repeal of 17C-11-5 (c) which requires cyclists to use a side-path when available and not the roadway.
Frank D. Gmeindl LCI #1703 491 Wilson Avenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:48 AM, Kasey Russell wrote:
Thanks everyone for your responses. We will meet at Steve Fowler's office at 901 Quarrier Street, Charleston on Monday, Nov. 18th at 10 am.
Steve, looks like there will only be a few in person but we will need a conference phone as a few will call in.
For those calling in please use our usual number: 641-715-3620; code is 877115#.
Kasey
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 8:20 AM, Kasey Russell russell.kasey@gmail.com wrote:
Hello WVCC Members -- We would like to have a Legislative Committee meeting on Monday, Nov. 18th at 10:00 a.m. Would you all be able to attend either in person or via conference call? We will be meeting in Steve Fowler's office in downtown Charleston and will have access to a conference phone.
Please let me know. I would expect our meeting to last 1 12/ hours.
Thanks, kasey
WVCC Legislative Committee Members,
This one-minute animation: http://commuteorlando.com/ontheroad/animations/narrowlane/narrowlane.html illustrates many of the hazards of riding far right as required by 17C-11-5 (a).
The cyclist must be allowed to choose a lane position that avoids these hazards.
A 3-foot passing law will not mitigate: * motorists pulling out in front of edge-riding bicyclists; * right-turning vehicles colliding with edge-riding cyclists (right hook); * on-coming left-turning vehicles crashing into edge-riding cyclists (left cross); * overtaking vehicles rear-ending cyclists who make left turns from the right side of the road; * edge-riding cyclists crashing because of debris, potholes, cracks, animals and pedestrians that are more prevalent at the right edge of the roadway.
Repealing 17C-11-5 (a) will free cyclists to choose a lane position that minimizes these hazards as well as close passes.
Frank D. Gmeindl LCI #1703 491 Wilson Avenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
On Nov 18, 2013, at 9:26 AM, Steve Fowler wrote:
I would propose the following;
Do we focus on the passage of the “three foot rule” or attempt to clean up all the problem statutes?Current law for passing a bike requires an audible signal, and then passing and returning to the lane of travel only when “safe”. Almost no one follows this law when passing a bicycle. An easy to understand “three foot rule” would be much better.Problem statutes/
a/ 17C-11-5(a) “as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable” Fix – Colorado law “far enough to the right as judged safe by the bicyclist to facilitate the movement of overtaking vehicles”
b/ 17C-11-5(c) Have to use a bike path Fix – repeal c/ 17C-11-7(b) have to use a bell Fix – repeal.
From: Emmett Pepper [mailto:epepper@vt.edu] Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 9:42 AM To: Frank Gmeindl Cc: Kasey Russell; Don Spencer; Gary Zuckett; Rahul Gupta; Strawn, Dennis A; Patrick Donovan; Christiaan Abildso; bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Board; Steve Fowler; Craig Slaughter; Greg Garrett; John Francis Subject: Re: WVCC Legislative Committee Meeting
Is there an agenda for this conference call/meeting?
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote: Kasey,
I would like to encourage WVCC to forget about a 3-foot passing rule and instead concentrate on repealing 17C-11-5 (a) which requires cyclists to ride as far to the right as practicable.
3-foot laws are not enforced and may not be enforceable. 3-feet is not enough when a 55 mph tractor trailer passes a 10 mph cyclist. (See attached Rutgers 3-foot final report.)
Riding far to the right leads to
- Motorists passing bicyclists too closely;
- Motorists intruding into the adjacent lane when there is on-coming traffic;
- Right-turning vehicles crashing into cyclists at intersections and driveways;
- On-coming left-turning vehicles crashing into cyclists;
- Overtaking vehicles crashing into left-turning cyclists;
- Cyclists crashing because of objects, debris; pedestrians; animals and surface hazards that are more prevalent at the right edge of the roadway.
(See attached talking point paper.)
Bicyclists that control the lane are almost always passed by the overtaking motorist making a full lane change, giving between 6 to 8 feet of passing clearance. If you have ridden this way, you know it is true. Why ask/plead/beg for 3 feet when predominant behavior secures more than twice that much passing margin and better passing behavior (lane changes instead of straddle and in-lane passes)?
Three foot passing laws are a bad reaction to the consequences of riding too far right. If you want passing space, solve the problem by eliminating the FTR law instead of applying a patch or "fix" such as a three foot passing law that doesn't address or solve the root cause of close passing.
We should also continue to pursue repeal of 17C-11-5 (c) which requires cyclists to use a side-path when available and not the roadway.
Frank D. Gmeindl LCI #1703 491 Wilson Avenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:48 AM, Kasey Russell wrote:
Thanks everyone for your responses. We will meet at Steve Fowler's office at 901 Quarrier Street, Charleston on Monday, Nov. 18th at 10 am. Steve, looks like there will only be a few in person but we will need a conference phone as a few will call in. For those calling in please use our usual number: 641-715-3620; code is 877115#. Kasey
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 8:20 AM, Kasey Russell russell.kasey@gmail.com wrote: Hello WVCC Members -- We would like to have a Legislative Committee meeting on Monday, Nov. 18th at 10:00 a.m. Would you all be able to attend either in person or via conference call? We will be meeting in Steve Fowler's office in downtown Charleston and will have access to a conference phone. Please let me know. I would expect our meeting to last 1 12/ hours. Thanks, kasey
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com http://wvcompletestreets.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
This is an excellent educational tool for our campaign. We need to figure how to get the legislators to watch it. Maybe get permission to play it in committee when bill is discussed?
From: Frank Gmeindl [mailto:fgmeindl@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 3:49 PM To: Steve Fowler Cc: Emmett Pepper; Strawn, Dennis A; John Francis; Kasey Russell; Rahul Gupta; Greg Garrett; Gary Zuckett; bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Board; Patrick Donovan; Christiaan Abildso; Craig Slaughter; Don Spencer Subject: Re: [Bikeboard] WVCC Legislative Committee Meeting
WVCC Legislative Committee Members,
This one-minute animation: http://commuteorlando.com/ontheroad/animations/narrowlane/narrowlane.html illustrates many of the hazards of riding far right as required by 17C-11-5 (a).
The cyclist must be allowed to choose a lane position that avoids these hazards.
A 3-foot passing law will not mitigate:
* motorists pulling out in front of edge-riding bicyclists;
* right-turning vehicles colliding with edge-riding cyclists (right hook);
* on-coming left-turning vehicles crashing into edge-riding cyclists (left cross);
* overtaking vehicles rear-ending cyclists who make left turns from the right side of the road;
* edge-riding cyclists crashing because of debris, potholes, cracks, animals and pedestrians that are more prevalent at the right edge of the roadway.
Repealing 17C-11-5 (a) will free cyclists to choose a lane position that minimizes these hazards as well as close passes.
Frank D. Gmeindl LCI #1703 491 Wilson Avenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
On Nov 18, 2013, at 9:26 AM, Steve Fowler wrote:
I would propose the following;
1. Do we focus on the passage of the "three foot rule" or attempt to clean up all the problem statutes?
2. Current law for passing a bike requires an audible signal, and then passing and returning to the lane of travel only when "safe". Almost no one follows this law when passing a bicycle. An easy to understand "three foot rule" would be much better.
Problem statutes/
a/ 17C-11-5(a) "as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable"
Fix - Colorado law "far enough to the right as judged safe by the bicyclist to facilitate the movement of overtaking vehicles"
b/ 17C-11-5(c) Have to use a bike path
Fix - repeal
c/ 17C-11-7(b) have to use a bell
Fix - repeal.
From: Emmett Pepper [mailto:epepper@vt.edu] Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 9:42 AM To: Frank Gmeindl Cc: Kasey Russell; Don Spencer; Gary Zuckett; Rahul Gupta; Strawn, Dennis A; Patrick Donovan; Christiaan Abildso; bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com Board; Steve Fowler; Craig Slaughter; Greg Garrett; John Francis Subject: Re: WVCC Legislative Committee Meeting
Is there an agenda for this conference call/meeting?
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Frank Gmeindl fgmeindl@gmail.com wrote:
Kasey,
I would like to encourage WVCC to forget about a 3-foot passing rule and instead concentrate on repealing 17C-11-5 (a) which requires cyclists to ride as far to the right as practicable.
3-foot laws are not enforced and may not be enforceable. 3-feet is not enough when a 55 mph tractor trailer passes a 10 mph cyclist. (See attached Rutgers 3-foot final report.)
Riding far to the right leads to
* Motorists passing bicyclists too closely;
* Motorists intruding into the adjacent lane when there is on-coming traffic;
* Right-turning vehicles crashing into cyclists at intersections and driveways;
* On-coming left-turning vehicles crashing into cyclists;
* Overtaking vehicles crashing into left-turning cyclists;
* Cyclists crashing because of objects, debris; pedestrians; animals and surface hazards that are more prevalent at the right edge of the roadway.
(See attached talking point paper.)
Bicyclists that control the lane are almost always passed by the overtaking motorist making a full lane change, giving between 6 to 8 feet of passing clearance. If you have ridden this way, you know it is true. Why ask/plead/beg for 3 feet when predominant behavior secures more than twice that much passing margin and better passing behavior (lane changes instead of straddle and in-lane passes)?
Three foot passing laws are a bad reaction to the consequences of riding too far right. If you want passing space, solve the problem by eliminating the FTR law instead of applying a patch or "fix" such as a three foot passing law that doesn't address or solve the root cause of close passing.
We should also continue to pursue repeal of 17C-11-5 (c) which requires cyclists to use a side-path when available and not the roadway.
Frank D. Gmeindl LCI #1703 491 Wilson Avenue Morgantown, WV 26501 304-376-0446 Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles
On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:48 AM, Kasey Russell wrote:
Thanks everyone for your responses. We will meet at Steve Fowler's office at 901 Quarrier Street, Charleston on Monday, Nov. 18th at 10 am.
Steve, looks like there will only be a few in person but we will need a conference phone as a few will call in.
For those calling in please use our usual number: 641-715-3620; code is 877115#.
Kasey
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 8:20 AM, Kasey Russell russell.kasey@gmail.com wrote:
Hello WVCC Members -- We would like to have a Legislative Committee meeting on Monday, Nov. 18th at 10:00 a.m. Would you all be able to attend either in person or via conference call? We will be meeting in Steve Fowler's office in downtown Charleston and will have access to a conference phone.
Please let me know. I would expect our meeting to last 1 12/ hours.
Thanks, kasey
_______________________________________________ Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@bikemorgantown.com http://wvcompletestreets.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
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