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2254 discussions

Geothermal power in WV!
by Jonathan Rosenbaum 11 Oct '10

11 Oct '10

This is an interesting story: http://wboy.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=87518 <http://wboy.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=87518> "If a geothermal well were to be drilled in West Virginia, it would use the same drilling rigs for drilling on Marcellus shale, as well," Anderson said. "In W.Va., the main difference is is it would be deeper to access higher temperatures. -Jonathan

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Fwd: Sierra Club nominating petition
by Jonathan Rosenbaum 11 Oct '10

11 Oct '10

What do people think about this? I know that #1, #2, #4 are true. Does anyone know if #3 is true? http://connect.sierraclub.org/post/Groups/Welcome_Michael_Brune/blog/watch_… -Jonathan -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Sierra Club nominating petition Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 22:58:48 -0400 From: Robert Jereski <mutualaid(a)earthlink.net> October 10, 2010 Dear Fellow Sierrans I have learned that an acquaintance of mine, the dedicated environmentalist and long-time member of the Sierra Club, Frank Morris, is running as a petition candidate for the national Sierra Club Board of Directors for 2011. I am delighted as I know that Frank would add much needed energy and vision to the work of the BoD. He is running as a petition candidate for the national board, because he is concerned with the direction of the national Sierra Club, including the following facts: 1. Sierra Club’s former leader Carl Pope has publicly supported the “Picken’s Plan”. T Boone Pickens is an oil and natural gas billionaire, who in 2004 undermined the Sierra Club’s endorsed Presidential candidate John Kerry by funding the Swift Boat Campaign. The Picken’s Plan is a pro-gas (fossil fuel) plan. 2. In one of his first public acts as new Sierra Club director, Michael Brune was on Cramer’s Mad Money advocating the purchase of natural gas stocks. Exxon Mobil recently purchased leading natural gas provider XTO energy. Does Mr. Brune now advocate owning Exxon Mobil as an environmental investment? 3. National Sierra Club Staffers and national board members, clearly and definitively, “advised “ NYS Sierrans against legislatively advocating for a ban on “Fracking” for natural gas in NYS. Fracking is a process, presently absolved from multiple federal environmental statutes including the Clean Air and Clean Water acts, where in chemically infused sand and water is used to “frack” or break, shale stone and release natural gas. 4. Sierra Club is now in the products endorsement business, and has sold its endorsement to Clorox and Coca Cola to support their “green” products. Frank Morris believes that innovative financing like PACE bonds, and a truly renewable energy infrastructure based on sun, wind, wave, efficiency, conservation, smart grid, back up battery power, and geothermal are available now, but these breakthroughs are being obfuscated by the club’s decision to support natural gas as an open ended “transition” fuel. Morris needs to collect 250 signatures from active Sierrans (petition attached). While the national board is always elected by the membership, there is a nominating committee that nominates members that play nice… That’s why Morris has to petition to allow members a real choice when elections are held early next year. There are 3 ways for Sierrans to complete this petition: Print, Sign, and snail mail to Frank Morris, 40 Exchange Place Suite 2010 NY NY 10005 Sign, scan, and email to fm(a)ecologicadvisors.us <mailto:fm@ecologicadvisors.us> Sign, print and fax to 1 206 984 4328 Frank is presently a member of the NYS (Atlantic Chapter) Sierra Club Executive Committee, and former Chairperson of Long Island Sierra Club 2007-2009. Please forward to other Sierrans that may be interested in supporting a grassroots, petition candidate beholden only to the interests of the club membership. Robert Jereski New York City Sierra Club member

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Stimulating promotional "white paper" from manufacturer of smart grid equip - the pitch: avoid capital cost of new generation and transmission by efficiency.
by William V. DePaulo, Esq. 11 Oct '10

11 Oct '10

EXCERPT FROM INTRO, COMPLETE PAPER ATTACHED. The world has a huge appetite for electric energy, consuming thousands of billions of kilowatt-hours (kWh) annually, a figure that continues to climb as more countries become industrialized. The world’s electric consumption has increased by about 3.1 percent annually between 1980 and 20061), and is expected to grow to 33,300 billion kWh by 2030). The world’s electricity consumption for 2008 was 16,790 billion kWh so by 2030 the world demand for electricity is expected to have almost doubled. Currently a significant amount (about 10 percent) of electric energy produced by power plants is lost during transmission and distribution to consumers. About 40 percent of this total loss occurs on the distribution network. In 2006 alone, the total energy losses and distribution losses were about 1,638 billion and 655 billion kWh, respectively. *A modest 10 percent reduction in distribution losses would, therefore, save about 65 billion kWh of electricity. That’s more electricity than Switzerland’s 7.5 million people consumed in 2008 and equates to 39 million metric tons of CO2 emissions from coal-fired power generation .* As the demand for electricity grows, new power plants will have to be built to meet the highest peak demand with additional capacity to cover unforeseen events. The peak demand in a system usually lasts less than 5 percent of the time (i.e, just a few hundred hours a year). This means that some power plants are only needed during the peak load hours and their potential is utilized relatively infrequently. By active demand management on the distribution system, through demand response and VVO, the peak demand on the whole electric grid can be reduced. This eliminates the need for expensive capital expenditure on the distribution, transmission, and the generation systems. Even very modest reductions in peak demand would yield huge economic savings. For the United States in 2008, for example, the non-coincidental peak demand (i.e, the separate peak demands made on the electrical system recorded at different times of the day) was about 790 GW. *With every 1 percent reduction in the peak demand there would be a reduced need to build a 7,900 MW power plant.*

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News from WVSORO
by Jonathan Rosenbaum 08 Oct '10

08 Oct '10

http://marcellus-wv.com/news/wv-soro-win-ruling-in-well-spacing-case-favors… http://marcellus-wv.com/news/sierra-club-launches-campaign-to-regulate-marc… -Jonathan

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Re: [EC] [fom] Re: Gazette Poll
by Bob Kincaid 08 Oct '10

08 Oct '10

To my way of thinking, that's not very astute. Unlimited wealth is NEVER easy to defeat. Unlimited wealth coupled to unlimited Citizens United money is all but impossible to remove from office, once entrenched. There's no hog harder to move than the one's already go front AND back feet in the trough. Bob On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Beth Little <blittle(a)citynet.net> wrote: > A politically astute friend of mine is voting for Raece on the premise > that he will be easier to defeat in a future election. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* ec-bounces(a)osenergy.org [mailto:ec-bounces@osenergy.org] *On > Behalf Of *Jim Sconyers > *Sent:* Thursday, October 07, 2010 12:52 PM > *To:* Harvard; Bob Kincaid > *Cc:* Clarissa Matthews; George rutherford; Theresa Chiotos; Blair > Nomination List Serve; All of FOM list; Pearl Reardon; Lyn Widmyer; Sally > Fitzgerald; Robbie Glenn; Lynn Yellot; Tyler Oyler; John Maxey; Barbara A. > Humes; Terry Thorson; Jenny Allen; ec(a)osenergy.org; Ed Snyder > *Subject:* Re: [EC] [fom] Re: Gazette Poll > > Or is this an election where King Coal wins regardless of which party, > Dem or Rep? Both kiss His ass feverishly. > > Jim Sconyers > jim_scon(a)yahoo.com > 304.698.9628 > > Remember: Mother Nature bats last. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Harvard <Harvard(a)boone.net> > *To:* Bob Kincaid <bobkincaid(a)gmail.com> > *Cc:* Clarissa Matthews <cmathews(a)shepherd.edu>; George rutherford < > gruther1(a)msn.com>; Theresa Chiotos <theresa(a)radlib.com>; Blair Nomination > List Serve <bmg(a)lists.berkeley.edu>; Lynn Yellot <lyellot(a)direcway.com>; > Pearl Reardon <hugorance(a)comcast.net>; Lyn Widmyer <lynwidmyer(a)gmail.com>; > Sally Fitzgerald <fitzwrt(a)comcast.net>; Terry Thorson < > tkthorson(a)comcast.net>; All of FOM list <fom(a)lists.riseup.net>; Tyler > Oyler <thegreatrepublic(a)hotmail.com>; John Maxey <maxey(a)ddi.radlib.com>; > Barbara A. Humes <bhumes1(a)comcast.net>; Robbie Glenn < > rglenn51989(a)gmail.com>; Jenny Allen <jbeallen(a)earthlink.net>; > ec(a)osenergy.org; Ed Snyder <esnyder(a)shepherd.edu> > *Sent:* Thu, October 7, 2010 9:32:54 AM > *Subject:* Re: [fom] Re: Gazette Poll > > Hear! Hear! I like it. Go Bob. Harvard > > > At 04:57 PM 10/6/2010, Bob Kincaid wrote: > > Personally, I think there IS a great deal of disenchantment w/ Manchin > (and, by extension, w/ Raese). > > > > Hopefully, I'll have an OpEd coming out in the Gazette pointing up that > lack of enthusiasm for both candidates, and pointing out the alternative. > > > > Again, personally, I think Manchin is so stuffed-to-popping with his own > hubris that it doesn't even dawn on him that he's alienated a significant > portion of the Democratic voting base via his sycophantic devotion to Big > Poison. I don't think it dawns on Rahall, either, for that matter. > > > > As Hunter Thompson once noted, "Big darkness, soon come." This may be > one race where coal can't keep the lights on for either candidate. > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Harvard <<mailto:Harvard@boone.net> > Harvard(a)boone.net> wrote: > > Regina- I'm surprised to see the 3rd party vote up at 44%. There must be > a lot of unhappiness with Manchin and the R. Or we are loading up the > voting. Since the question was asked in the hypothetical, I voted. Harvard > > > > > > > > At 11:27 AM 10/6/2010, Regina Hendrix wrote: > > West Virginians: > > > > Please go to <<http://www.wvgazette.com/>http://www.wvgazette.com/> > http://www.wvgazette.com/ > > > > On the lefthand side scroll down to the survey question and vote for 3rd > party representation in WV. Ken Hechler and Larry Gibson have called this > to my attention and we need some votes in favor of 3rd parties. > > > > Regina Hendrix > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > "A normal person, functioning well on the upper levels of a prosperous, > industrialized society, can hardly hear his conscience at all." -Kurt > Vonnegut > > > > -- "A normal person, functioning well on the upper levels of a prosperous, industrialized society, can hardly hear his conscience at all." -Kurt Vonnegut

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Fwd: Fw: DAILY UPDATE 8 October 2010. News of interest to Mon river watershed denizens.
by James Kotcon 08 Oct '10

08 Oct '10

On average, 84 % of trucks received citations, and 18 % were in such bad shape that state Police took them off the road immediately. JBK 208 trucks out of service after safety enforcement effort 10/8/2010 3:34 AM State police placed 208 trucks out of service during a three-day enforcement effort that focused on commercial vehicles hauling wastewater from Marcellus Shale natural gas drilling operations in the state, Commissioner Frank E. Pawlowski announced today. "Pennsylvania is experiencing heavy truck traffic in areas where Marcellus Shale natural gas drilling operations are taking place, particularly in Bradford, Clearfield, Susquehanna, Tioga and Washington counties," Pawlowski said. "The process of hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, requires significant amounts of water to be delivered to the sites and later trucked away." Pawlowski said 140 of the vehicles placed out of service were trucks hauling waste water from the drilling operations. In total, 1,135 trucks were inspected during "Operation FracNET," which was conducted Sept. 27-29. In addition to placing vehicles out of service, state police also issued 959 citations and placed 64 drivers out of service. The most common problems involved faulty brakes, exterior lighting issues and hauling permit violations. In Troop B , which takes in Allegheny, Fayette, Greene and Washington counties, there were 343 inspections, 60 vehicles placed out of service and 168 citations. Copyright Observer Publishing Co.

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Re: [EC] [fom] Re: Gazette Poll
by Harvard 07 Oct '10

07 Oct '10

Hear! Hear! I like it. Go Bob. Harvard At 04:57 PM 10/6/2010, Bob Kincaid wrote: >Personally, I think there IS a great deal of disenchantment w/ >Manchin (and, by extension, w/ Raese). > >Hopefully, I'll have an OpEd coming out in the Gazette pointing up >that lack of enthusiasm for both candidates, and pointing out the >alternative. > >Again, personally, I think Manchin is so stuffed-to-popping with his >own hubris that it doesn't even dawn on him that he's alienated a >significant portion of the Democratic voting base via his >sycophantic devotion to Big Poison. I don't think it dawns on >Rahall, either, for that matter. > >As Hunter Thompson once noted, "Big darkness, soon come." This may >be one race where coal can't keep the lights on for either candidate. > >Bob > > > >On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Harvard ><<mailto:Harvard@boone.net>Harvard(a)boone.net> wrote: >Regina- I'm surprised to see the 3rd party vote up at 44%. There >must be a lot of unhappiness with Manchin and the R. Or we are >loading up the voting. Since the question was asked in the >hypothetical, I voted. Harvard > > > >At 11:27 AM 10/6/2010, Regina Hendrix wrote: >West Virginians: > >Please go >to ><<http://www.wvgazette.com/>http://www.wvgazette.com/>http://www.wvgazette.com/ > >On the lefthand side scroll down to the survey question and vote for >3rd party representation in WV. Ken Hechler and Larry Gibson have >called this to my attention and we need some votes in favor of 3rd parties. > >Regina Hendrix > > > > > >-- >"A normal person, functioning well on the upper levels of a >prosperous, industrialized society, can hardly hear his conscience >at all." -Kurt Vonnegut

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Gazette Poll
by Regina Hendrix 07 Oct '10

07 Oct '10

West Virginians: Please go to http://www.wvgazette.com/ On the lefthand side scroll down to the survey question and vote for 3rd party representation in WV. Ken Hechler and Larry Gibson have called this to my attention and we need some votes in favor of 3rd parties. Regina Hendrix

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Re: [EC] WIND AND NOISE
by fmoose39＠hotmail.com 06 Oct '10

06 Oct '10

I live about 6 miles from 1 and 7 from another. I can hear them, see the lights, see the smoke, smell them sometimes, and when they start the scrubbed I can feel them. Maybe wind is bad but the ones I visited are not bad at the base but with acoustics bouncing off various items who know. Bottom line all forms of power have side effects someone may not want. Even solar will have major problems when expanded to utility scale. sent from my AT&T Smartphone by HTC ----- Reply message ----- From: "James Kotcon" <jkotcon(a)wvu.edu> Date: Wed, Oct 6, 2010 10:42 am Subject: [EC] WIND AND NOISE To: "Esq. William V. DePaulo" <william.depaulo(a)gmail.com>, "Energy Committee" <EC(a)osenergy.org> If only a coal-fired power plant were as quiet as a wind farm. JBK >>> "William V. DePaulo, Esq." <william.depaulo(a)gmail.com> 10/6/2010 8:51 AM >>> For Those Near, the Miserable Hum of Clean Energy By TOM ZELLER Jr.<http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/people/z/tom_jr_zell…> Published: October 5, 2010 “In the first 10 minutes, our jaws dropped to the ground,” Mr. Lindgren said. “Nobody in the area could believe it. They were so loud.” Now, the Lindgrens, along with a dozen or so neighbors living less than a mile <http://fiwn.org/> from the $15 million wind facility here, say the industrial whoosh-and-whoop of the 123-foot blades is making life in this otherwise tranquil corner of the island unbearable. They are among a small but growing number of families and homeowners across the country who say they have learned the hard way that wind power — a clean alternative to electricity from fossil fuels — is not without emissions of its own. Lawsuits and complaints about turbine noise, vibrations and subsequent lost property value have cropped up in Illinois, Texas, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Massachusetts, among other states. In one case in DeKalb County, Ill., at least 38 families have sued to have 100 turbines removed from a wind farm there. A judge rejected a motion to dismiss the case in June. Like the Lindgrens, many of the people complaining the loudest are reluctant converts to the antiwind movement. “The quality of life that we came here for was quiet,” Mrs. Lindgren said. “You don’t live in a place where you have to take an hour-and-15-minute ferry ride to live next to an industrial park. And that’s where we are right now.” The wind industry has long been dogged by a vocal minority bearing all manner of complaints about turbines, from routine claims that they ruin the look of pastoral landscapes to more elaborate allegations that they have direct physiological impacts like rapid heart beat, nausea and blurred vision caused by the ultra-low-frequency sound and vibrations from the machines. For the most extreme claims, there is little independent backing. Last year, the American Wind Energy Association, a trade group, along with its Canadian counterpart, assembled a panel of doctors and acoustical professionals to examine the potential health impacts of wind turbine noise. In a paper published in December, the panel concluded that “there is no evidence that the audible or sub-audible sounds emitted by wind turbines have any direct adverse physiological effects.” A separate study <http://eetd.lbl.gov/ea/ems/reports/lbnl-2829e.pdf>financed by the Energy Department concluded late last year that, in aggregate, property values were unaffected by nearby wind turbines. Numerous studies also suggest that not everyone will be bothered by turbine noise, and that much depends on the context into which the noise is introduced. A previously quiet setting like Vinalhaven is more likely to produce irritated neighbors than, say, a mixed-use suburban setting where ambient noise is already the norm. Of the 250 new wind farms that have come online in the United States over the last two years, about dozen or so have generated significant noise complaints, according to Jim Cummings, the founder of the Acoustic Ecology Institute <http://www.acousticecology.org/>, an online clearinghouse for information on sound-related environmental issues. In the Vinalhaven case, an audio consultant hired by the Maine Department of Environmental Protection determined last month that the 4.5-megawatt facility was, at least on one evening in mid-July when Mr. Lindgren collected sound data, in excess of the state’s nighttime sound limits. The developer of the project, Fox Island Wind <http://www.fo

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WIND AND NOISE
by William V. DePaulo, Esq. 06 Oct '10

06 Oct '10

For Those Near, the Miserable Hum of Clean Energy By TOM ZELLER Jr.<http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/people/z/tom_jr_zell…> Published: October 5, 2010 “In the first 10 minutes, our jaws dropped to the ground,” Mr. Lindgren said. “Nobody in the area could believe it. They were so loud.” Now, the Lindgrens, along with a dozen or so neighbors living less than a mile <http://fiwn.org/> from the $15 million wind facility here, say the industrial whoosh-and-whoop of the 123-foot blades is making life in this otherwise tranquil corner of the island unbearable. They are among a small but growing number of families and homeowners across the country who say they have learned the hard way that wind power — a clean alternative to electricity from fossil fuels — is not without emissions of its own. Lawsuits and complaints about turbine noise, vibrations and subsequent lost property value have cropped up in Illinois, Texas, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Massachusetts, among other states. In one case in DeKalb County, Ill., at least 38 families have sued to have 100 turbines removed from a wind farm there. A judge rejected a motion to dismiss the case in June. Like the Lindgrens, many of the people complaining the loudest are reluctant converts to the antiwind movement. “The quality of life that we came here for was quiet,” Mrs. Lindgren said. “You don’t live in a place where you have to take an hour-and-15-minute ferry ride to live next to an industrial park. And that’s where we are right now.” The wind industry has long been dogged by a vocal minority bearing all manner of complaints about turbines, from routine claims that they ruin the look of pastoral landscapes to more elaborate allegations that they have direct physiological impacts like rapid heart beat, nausea and blurred vision caused by the ultra-low-frequency sound and vibrations from the machines. For the most extreme claims, there is little independent backing. Last year, the American Wind Energy Association, a trade group, along with its Canadian counterpart, assembled a panel of doctors and acoustical professionals to examine the potential health impacts of wind turbine noise. In a paper published in December, the panel concluded that “there is no evidence that the audible or sub-audible sounds emitted by wind turbines have any direct adverse physiological effects.” A separate study <http://eetd.lbl.gov/ea/ems/reports/lbnl-2829e.pdf>financed by the Energy Department concluded late last year that, in aggregate, property values were unaffected by nearby wind turbines. Numerous studies also suggest that not everyone will be bothered by turbine noise, and that much depends on the context into which the noise is introduced. A previously quiet setting like Vinalhaven is more likely to produce irritated neighbors than, say, a mixed-use suburban setting where ambient noise is already the norm. Of the 250 new wind farms that have come online in the United States over the last two years, about dozen or so have generated significant noise complaints, according to Jim Cummings, the founder of the Acoustic Ecology Institute <http://www.acousticecology.org/>, an online clearinghouse for information on sound-related environmental issues. In the Vinalhaven case, an audio consultant hired by the Maine Department of Environmental Protection determined last month that the 4.5-megawatt facility was, at least on one evening in mid-July when Mr. Lindgren collected sound data, in excess of the state’s nighttime sound limits. The developer of the project, Fox Island Wind <http://www.foxislandswind.com/>, has contested that finding, and negotiations with state regulators are continuing. In the moonlit woods behind a neighbor’s property on a recent evening, Mr. Lindgren, a retired software engineer, clenched a small flashlight between his teeth and wrestled with a tangle of cables and audio recording equipment he uses to collect sound samples for filing complaints. At times, the rustle of leaves was all that could be heard. But when the surface wind settled, a throbbing, vaguely jetlike sound cut through the nighttime air. “Right there,” Mr. Lindgren declared. “That would probably be out of compliance.” Maine, along with many other states, puts a general limit on nighttime noise at 45 decibels — roughly equivalent to the sound of a humming refrigerator. A normal conversation is in the range of 50 to 60 decibels. In almost all cases, it is not mechanical noise arising from the central gear box or nacelle of a turbine that residents react to, but rather the sound of the blades, which in modern turbines are mammoth steel appendages well over 100 feet long, as they slice through the air. Turbine noise can be controlled by reducing the rotational speed of the blades. But the turbines on Vinalhaven already operate that way after 7 p.m., and George Baker, the chief executive of Fox Island Wind — a for-profit arm of the island’s electricity co-operative — said that turning the turbines down came at an economic cost. “The more we do that, the higher goes the price of electricity on the island,” he said. A common refrain among homeowners grappling with sound issues, however, is that they were not accurately informed about the noise ahead of time. “They told us we wouldn’t hear it, or that it would be masked by the sound of the wind blowing through the trees,” said Sally Wylie, a former schoolteacher down the road from the Lindgrens. “I feel duped.” Similar conflicts are arising in Canada, Britain and other countries. An appeals court in Rennes, France, recently ordered an eight-turbine wind farm to shut down between 10 p.m. and 7 a.m. so residents could get some sleep. Richard R. James, an acoustic expert hired by residents of Vinalhaven to help them quantify the noise problem, said there was a simpler solution: do not put the turbines so close to where people live. “It would seem to be time for the wind utility developers to rethink their plans for duplicating these errors and to focus on locating wind turbines in areas where there is a large buffer zone of about a mile and one-quarter between the turbines and people’s homes,” said Mr. James, the principal consultant with E-Coustic Solutions <http://www.e-coustic.com/>, based in Michigan. Vinalhaven’s wind farm enjoys support among most residents, from ardent supporters of all clean energy to those who simply say the turbines have reduced their power bills. Deckhands running the ferry sport turbine pins on their hats, and bumper stickers seen on the island declare “Spin, Baby, Spin.” “The majority of us like them,” said Jeannie Conway, who works at the island’s ferry office. But that is cold comfort for Mrs. Lindgren and her neighbors, who say their corner of the island will never be the same. “I remember the sound of silence so palpable, so merciless in its depths, that you could almost feel your heart stop in sympathy,” she said. “Now we are prisoners of sonic effluence. I grieve for the past.”

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