From: Frank Gmeindl Date: November 20, 2012 11:55:03 AM EST To: Bill Austin Cc: Christiaan Abildso , Damien Davis , Gunnar Shogren , Chet Parsons , Derek Springston , Ryan Post , Jing Zhang , Alice Vernon Subject: Re: Evaluation of Bike Routes from Vision 2000 Thanks, Bill, I'm copying the BB Mapping Committee on this. ��Most of the proposed projects are trails. ��Some Mapping Committee members have much more expertise and interest than I in such. ��If we could all get together to discuss the projects, I'm sure we would have spirited, productive and fun discussion.�� First a few general comments: In the route information table on page 4, I'm confused by the columns labeled "shared lane" and "bike lane". ��If both are checked, does it mean that both are proposed or one or the other? ��Also, does "shared lane" mean to make the lanes 15-feet wide or wider? �� ROW acquisition could be the most significant factor rather than engineering in determining the feasibility of most of the proposed projects. ��Perhaps we should create some ROM cost estimates or at least estimate whether a project would ever be likely to be funded or not.�� Some of the proposed trails seem to be more within the purview of BOPARC than MPO since they are primarily recreation rather than transportation and may be inappropriate for a transportation plan. Now some specific off-the-cuff comments (that I hope other Mapping Committee members will correct, expand and improve): R1 Mileground Route: ��Overcome by current Mileground expansion plan. ��Putting bike lanes on there without first installing access management would be murder. ��I'm totally amazed that Vision 2000 contains nothing for Hartman Run Rd. ��If anywhere should have bike lanes added, there's it: ��blind turns and hill crests; very steep climbs; high speed motor traffic;��few driveways and cross roads. �� R2, R3, R4, R5, R6, R7, R8, R9, R10 would make a wonderful bicycle beltway around the city. ��Property acquisition costs are probably prohibitive. ��Some parts of it are too steep. R2 Eastern West Run Route: ��Land acquisition cost? ��There are some pretty steep grades there. ��Probably some significant earth work necessary. �� R3 Middle West Run, R4 Western West Run Route and R5 West Run-Trail Connector would provide a meaningful transportation connector from the burgeoning West Run developments to the Mon River Trail but only if R5 West Run-Trail Connector is realized (property acquisition plus some significant earth work (steep banks)). �� R6 Suncrest Extension: Nice if R5 is built. ��Only need to connect R5 to Morgan Dr. though. ��Probably some significant earth work (steep banks). ��Property acquisition? R7 University Farm Route: ��Good. ��Used this often years ago. ��Land acquisition costs? ��(Maybe WVU would do the project?) R8 Falling Run Extension: ��Steep. ��Significant earthwork. ��Eventually, WVU will own all that so why not ask them to just do it? R9 N. Willey Connector: ��Steep. ��Significant earthwork. R10 Falling Run Route: Doesn't Falling Run Rd. already provide this? ��What's proposed? ��Widening the street? ��Bicycling up out of that bowl at the terminus is problematic. The set of projects: R2, R7, R8, R9 and R10 should be compared with making Stewartstown Rd., Stewart St. and Campus Dr. ��bicycle-firendly from West Run to Beechurst and connecting across Beechurst to the rail trail. ��A lot of headway could probably be made by inexpensive R4-11 Bicycles May Use Full Lane signs, setting the speed limit to 25 (or lower) and some serious enforcement. ���� R11 Grant Ave. Extension: ��Property acquisition. ��Steep. ��Significant earthwork to make it bicycle-feasible. R12 Krepps Park Route: Nice park, limited transportation utility. ��More useful for transportation to make University Av. between Boyers and Patteson wider. R13 Fairlawns Ave. Extension: ��Isn't this already done? ��I've never been there but I hear it's done. ��I question it's usefulness as a bicycle transportation connection. R14 Center Hill Ave. Extension, R15 Normandy St. Extension: ��I'm not familiar. ��Probably steep: significant earthwork. ��Could provide a useful link to the bicycle climbing lane on Mon Blvd. between Boyers and Patteson. R16 Monongahela Blvd. Route: ��Simple, just paint "Bike Lane" on the shoulder and keep it clean and maintained. R22 Mississippi St. Extension: ��Seems like a nice BOPARC project. ��Several streets already connect Mississippi to Dorsey. R23 Callen Av. Connector: ��This is also in the last LRTP and the Bicycle Board is working on getting a grant for a version of it now. R24 Dorsey Av. Connector: ��Steep. ��Bad intersection with Dorsey (similar to Sanford but steeper, I think). �� R25 Harner St. Extension Cool but totally unnecessary. ��Better to re-establish White Av. as a bike route as it was for at least 20 years in the 70s and 80s. ��White Av. and Buckhannon Av. are both fine bike routes and serve the same origins and destinations at the Harner St. Extension. After this little preview, I wonder if anyone's interested in getting together to discuss. ��I haven't been to the new Black Bear in Suncrest;) Frank On Nov 19, 2012, at 4:46 PM, Bill Austin wrote: Frank, �� I apologize for the imprecision in the description. These are proposed bike paths from the Chambers Vision 2000 Plan. We got the map from Nick a while back and I asked Jing to take a preliminary look at the routes to determine the feasibility of the paths and to give us the routes in GIS if we should decide to move forward with them. I was asking you Damien and Christiaan to review the work that Jing has done and to let me know of any additional information you would like. Ultimately, we will need to determine if we ��want to include the feasible paths in our work to develop a complete route network. If Jing���s work is satisfactory we can consider moving these into consideration by the Bike Board as we develop the Bike Plan. �� Thanks, �� �� Bill Austin, AICP Executive Director Morgantown Monongalia MPO 82 Hart Field Road Ste. 105 Morgantown, WVA�� 26505 304-291-9571 304-692-7225 Mobile ���Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it���s time to pause and reflect.��� -Mark Twain ���Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.��� -Marilyn Monroe �� �� �� From: Frank Gmeindl [mailto:fgmeindl@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 4:06 PM To: Bill Austin Cc: Christiaan Abildso; Damien Davis; Jing Zhang; Gunnar Shogren Subject: Re: Evaluation of Bike Routes from Vision 2000 �� Hi Bill, �� Is it 2020 Visioning Plan or Vision 2000? ��The info at the link in your message is labeled Evaluation of Bicycle Routes from Vision 2000. ��Who created Vision 2000? ��How does it fit with the Long Range Transportation Plan that we're planning to roll out to the public on Dec. 5 and the Greater Morgantown Bicycle Plan that City Council adopted last May? ��Are you thinking of integrating them somehow? �� Reading the pdf at the link in your message, particularly the maps is difficult (I can't read the road names) but it looks like this map is mostly a trail map rather than a bike route map. ���� �� The proposed trails/routes shown on the maps are pretty cool and if realized would provide some really nifty fun little places to recreate on your bike but to get a vision into our bicycle transportation system's current state and potential improvements, I'd like to see us do something similar to that which the Maneta Institute did in San Jose,��http://transweb.sjsu.edu/project/1005.html��. �� If the Bicycle Board's going to work on this, I'd like to share this thread with the Mapping Committee (gunnar Shogren, Chet Parsons, Derek Springston, Ryan Post, Alice Vernon, Jing Zhang, Frank Gmeindl) before engaging the whole BB. ��Would that be OK with you? �� Frank Cyclists far best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles �� On Nov 19, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Bill Austin wrote: Gentlemen, �� Jing has reviewed the Bike Routes proposed in the 2020 Visioning Plan for feasibility and to identify the exact location of the proposed facilities. You may access his results at the link below. This link is not available to the general public. A more compact hard copy version (11 MB) is available at the Drop Box site under the Public folder. I will send that link to you shortly. �� http://www.plantogether.org/Public%20Notices/PublicReview.html �� �� We would appreciate your comments on this work. �� Thanks, �� �� Bill Austin, AICP Executive Director Morgantown Monongalia MPO 82 Hart Field Road Ste. 105 Morgantown, WVA�� 26505 304-291-9571 304-692-7225 Mobile ���Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it���s time to pause and reflect.��� -Mark Twain ���Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.��� -Marilyn Monroe �� �� �� �� �� �� �� �� ��